She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

Actually I realise it should have been in reply to Hereforitmaybe who mentioned her mother saying not being of sound mind at the time.

Can you imagine how it would go -

Aquaintance of op's dm: "Lucky you, being able to afford that nice area"

Op's dm: "I couldn't, so I got dd to sell her home to pay for it"

Also bear in mind, OP, she gifted you part of what she'd just inherited. She didn't sell any assets to gift to you. She didn't squirrel away wages to gift to you. She didn't draw down her own pension to gift to you.

Someone else gifted her 200k and she further gifted 50k each to you and your brother from the inheritance

If she wants money off you, you would literally be gifting your money raised by selling your assets to do so.

Ah, that makes sense.

OK So you put your house on the market.
You get estate agents in, declutter, repaint, stage the house for sale.
You start looking around for somewhere else to move to.
You get an offer, but its below asking price ?
You look for somewhere even cheaper to move to.
You have to pay estate agents fees, convenancing fees, surveyors fees, removal van fees.
You need to pay to see a financial advisor because even if you port your mortgage it will be for a different amount and now interest rates are so much higher than they were five years ago, so the mortgage might even cost more or the repayment portion might have to be reduced.
The purchase of your new property is delayed so you have to pay to put your things in storage and rent until the sale goes through.
Even if it all does go through - you will be considerably out of pocket just trying to move. Not to mention that the cheaper property might be further from work so higher travel costs and may need decorating / repairs -

Do any of those costs come off the £50K?

Even if you go through all of this and people say allow a minimum of six months to sell/buy... so that's the next year of your life taken up with ...

If you do all of this.. what guarantee is there that your mother will be doing the same thing and will ACTUALLY move.. that she won't just decide she can't be bothered and will stay where she is and spend the £50k as she spent £100k in 5 years.
What if she decides to give the money to your brother and or the Aunt who is suddenly so interested? What if that was the plan all along?

Even though you are feeling guilty etc... and don't want to say no to her, you cannot allow her to evict you from your home and take away all your security.

Please don't make any offers to her atm. None. Just hear what she has to say. Let her show you the area she wants, the property she's seen and how much for etc.

This could be whim that peters out, with a bit of luck. Oh and tell your Aunt to mind her own damn buisiness. Anything your mum wants to say to you about it should be said directly to you, not via a flying monkey.

And I think gifts originating in income or other cash are treated differently for tax purposes than gifts made from the sale of assets. So the question of inheritance, capital gains and other taxes may be raised.

Thank you - this feels fair and very practical too. Perhaps she hasn't thought of the implications.

To add - there is no eventful backstory as such, we have what I thought was a lovely relationship. Not especially close like my friends mother/daughter relationships as we're chalk and cheese but definitely not abusive in any way.

I do think she favours my brother but they share a hobby and of course she adores her grandchildren so they have more interaction.

I just want to do what's right, morally, I want to make sure she's okay.

Exactly this. I grew up with a manipulative, game playing mother and did not recognize it for fifty years because I was groomed by her to be obedient. Over the years, I jumped through so many hoops to keep her happy and tried so hard to be a good daughter, despite her outrageous behavior. OP, please do not give up your house in a misguided attempt to be a good daughter. Your mother's request is outrageous and unmotherly. It is time to develop some boundaries for your own survival. You deserve to keep your house and no good mother would suggest otherwise.

Hopefully (and being charitable here!)... she has got very carried away in some pipedream of living in Posh Town in a nice smaller place, to take the sting of having to downsize away...

Then realised she can't actually afford that, but has now justified to herself this is the only way to move and downsize...

And is of the mistaken belief that you have pots of money sitting around doing nothing which of course you'll be happy to give her and wouldn't really set you back any to do that...

So really make sure she grasps this is not the case!

OP, bluntly, there's only one person here who's in danger of not being okay.

Morally????

She bloody fine! She just wants to move to a posher area no doubt just to show off!!

It's immoral to give your children £50k each then only ask 1 child for it back just because you want a posher postcode!!

@HereForItMaybe you just want to do what's right, morally, and want to make sure she's okay

she doesn’t want to do right by you, make sure your ok.

think about this.

just tell her “I can’t afford to help you with your house purchase” and “I’m not selling my house”

“the money was a gift, declared as such and I’m not going to get myself in trouble with my mortgage provider.”

OP have you taken legal advice? You declared the money as a gift on legal documents please check the implications if you treat any of it as a loan.

You talk about wanting to do the moral thing, the person who is acting immorally here is your mother who is apparently happy for you to sell your house just so she can live in an expensive area. That's appalling behaviour on her part.

You owe her none of your morality when she's demonstrating how devoid of her own she is.

I'd rather live in a tent than ask for money back that I had given as a gift. Your mother is a massive CF.

So she would rather see you homeless so she could live in a nicer area.

Hell no. Tell her, in no uncertain terms, you will not be selling YOUR home or getting into debt to return money that is no longer hers.

This is giving me the rage 🤬

"I just want to do what's right, morally, I want to make sure she's okay."

@HereForItMaybe
She IS OK. She's got her own home, where she's settled. She's had an extra £100k to spend in the last five years. She has two children she sees regularly and grandchildren.

She wants you, on little more than an inclination for a "better area" to be evicted from your own home and forced to go through up to a year's angst to sell up and buy a much cheaper one, possibly paying more for the loan due to higher interest rates.
When you have no guarantee whatsoever that she will indeed use the money to move. Perhaps she's just got used to that extra £20k a year income padding and would like it to continue for a bit longer. Would you give up your home for that?

If you are looking at morals.. I'd look at hers. What parent would want to do that to their child? Make you sell up your home and downgrade, so that she can upgrade to a better area? Where is she moving to Mayfair?

It would be understandable if she was in urgent need, medical or something. But she's not. She just wants to move somewhere a bit posher. Your well being is very expendable isn't it?

You said in one sentence what I was trying to say!

Not enough info here
Is she ill or suffering from dementia ?
Have you upset her in any way ?
You need to provide more facts.

This is so unreasonable that it actually makes me think there is more to the story,

You cannot gift someone 50k then ask for it back.

And asking one child over another is equally unreasonable.

You would not be unreasonable to simply say she told you that it was a gift and that will not be repaying it:

I don't think more facts are needed. Being ill, having dementia or simply being upset doesn't justify pressurising OP to return money she doesn't have and having to sell her home of five years to do so.

Of course you want to do the right thing, @HereForItMaybe but it sounds like your Mum doesn’t realize that once she signed the papers declaring that the money was a gift, it was no longer hers. She can’t ask for it back now, especially as it’s tied up in a property.

If she wants her gift back, suggest that SHE consults a solicitor on how to do this and how to avoid committing fraud.

It really sounds like she thinks of this gift as if she gave you £50 and now wants it back. It’s not that simple!

Purely from an IHT perspective, and given the gift is now 5 years old, it wouldn't. make any sense to give it back - she only needs to survive another 2 and it'll be IHT free. Whereas if you give it back, maybe not (depending on how large her estate is).
I think if she was in dire need the situation would be different but you are just paying for her lack of planning.

But your mum isn't thinking morally in this. Please grow a backbone. I'm saying this kindly.

This is an absurd demand from your mom.

Don't sell your own home or give her any money to enable her batshittery. The sexism alone in not asking bro to pay back his gift but just you, that's insane.

Is she showing any signs of dementia?

That's how irrational this ask is.

@ChristmasPudd1990 She isn’t thinking, full stop. This is a legally recognized gift!