She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

OP used the money towards her house purchase and it was legally documented as a gift to comply with money laundering rules. OP wouldn’t be able remortgage to repay her mum because the money has already been declared as a gift.

Yes,well most of us here,I hope, would NEVER be put into that situation.
Op is your mum awful with money? Sounds like she's going to be living beyond her means if she wants to move to a more expensive area.

I know this is banded around a lot but is she a narcissist? My brother is and they bought houses beyond their means to give off a certain impression. And guess what? It backfired twice. Both times they were repossessed. Forced into private rent and only now have been able to buy(sensibly and within their means) in a modest shared ownership.

Where did the OP say it the £50k was declared as a loan from her mum??

She's clearly said, more than once, it was declared as a gift by a solicitor during her house buying process!

You're being walked all over by your narcissistic mum OP.

Very hard for her to prove that!

It wasn’t declared as a loan, it was declared legally as a gift to comply with money laundering rules. It’s not legally repayable. DM hasn’t a legal leg to stand on.

Prove what ? DM’s gift was exactly that. Declared as a gift, legally and above board with the participation of legal counsel. Legally it’s not repayable, so anything OP gives to her mum would similarly have to be considered a gift - it’s not a repayment of anything.

I can't believe what I"m reading.

A text ahead of your coffee tomorrow along the lines of.

Hey Mum

Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. I thought I'd text ahead as I don't want to get into an argument with you or seem ungrateful, but I am a really upset so want to make sure I've understood correctly.... Are you really suggesting that I should sell my actual home, so that i can return a gift, so that you can move to a new area? As in, I have to give up my home? Where i currently live?

To be honest, the thought of having to lose my home is making me feel sick with worry. As you know - even if I were to buy a smaller flat - the cost of moving is in the region of the £50K you want, so actually I'd be out around £100K as well as out of the home I love.

I was very grateful for the gift and invested wisely. I am going to be honest and say I don't think your request to return the gift is fair as it has such a MASSIVE implication on my life. I'm not sure what your expectation from 'DB' is? I believe he has also spent his money but possiby on things that he cannot re-sell - ie holidays?

Why don't we meet up and look at ways to make your money work for you - and if DB and I can help in a way that means I don't have to lose my home, I'm happy to explore that too.

See you tomorrow
XXX

@HereForItMaybe - I think you have to be very clear with your mum - tell her that giving her the money she gave you back would mean you losing your house.

For what it’s worth, in my opinion it was a gift and you have NO responsibility to give it back - especially as it is not fulfil an actual need for your mum. She wants to move to the more expensive area - she doesn’t need to move to that area. It would be different if there was a real need for her to move to that area - being near a relative for caring responsibilities, being nearer a new job, being near vital medical care - but this is not the case here, I assume. Therefore it is a want not a need, and she has no right to expect you to sell your house for her fantasy/dream home/area.

Frankly, if she has adult children, she is old enough to know that a) you don’t ask for gifts back, and b) we can’t have everything we want - if we can’t afford it, we can’t have it!

@HereForItMaybe I think you are mad even meeting with her to discuss it , you were given it , you’ve used it , there is no money and that is what you need to tell her . She won’t be able to get round it by saying she was insane at the time as she would have to say she was still insane so that will never wash . Have you spoken to your brother and asked if she has asked him because you should do that before seeing her .

The mum hasn't asked her to sell her home though. Not yet. It's the OP panicking that she might be asked / forced to.

Unbelievable.

It is unbelieveable. I can't square this request with being an otherwise decent person.

But it's what the OP would have to do. The mum cant expect her daughter to just whip up 50 grand at the drop of a hat. If she had gifted the money towards a house,it's obvious she wouldn't have that kind of money sitting around now.

But her mum does know that @HereForItMaybe put the money towards her house purchase, so common sense must dictate that, giving the money back would probably mean she had to sell her house, @JimHalpertsWife.

I think either way this might be the end of a decent relationship with your mum. Id have the house and a shit relationship rather than debt and a shit relationship.

Neither can I. My suspicion is that she is not otherwise entirely decent and has form for cheeky fuckery. OP may not be able to see what a CF request it is because she grew up with this kind of behaviour and it's normal to her.

Erm..

If she was not of sound mind/lacked capacity to gift the money... then she is also lacking the capacity to purchase a property.

She cannot play that game, and also if she lacks capacity to decide what to do with her finances, the ship has sailed on giving someone else permission to act on her behalf too - such permission has to be given before someone loses the capacity/competency, so that the nominated person can take over if/when it happens.

I really would not worry about that, it's as likely as a pig squadron doing an aerial display over your town.

She chose to gift you a sum of money. That was her choice. She did so willingly and without duress. She attended a solicitor with you and signed forms to declare that the money was a gift not a loan. And you were granted your mortgage on that basis.

If she now wants the money back, HMC will consider it suspicious putting it mildly. As will your mortgage provider. You will end up with a right mess that will cost you a lot.

So when you meet with mum tomorrow, you need to firstly say you don't have £50,000. And leave it there. Don't fill the silence or offer any alternative. If she then mentions selling the house, you ask if she really wants you homeless so she can live in a posh area. And let the silence hang. And then remind her of the above. That she gifted you the money and signed documents to that effect. And that any attempt to say it wasn't a gift will probably lead to her being investigated for fraud. And that even if you did sell up the £50,000 would be used up in legal fees so plainly, it's not going to happen. Plus you would be homeless.

Remind her that you appreciated her generosity but you don't have any money to gift her and she needs to fund her relocation herself.

And there is nothing she can do. She has signed documents in front of a solicitor, who wouldn't have allowed it if she wasn't mentally fit. She and her sister can built you, but turn it back to them...
Oh mum/auntie I can't believe you would see me on the streets just so you can live in posh town! You are awful...

Please don't sell your house for your mother.

Seriously.. don't offer anything.

Find out what it is she wants to do, and why.

Then just keep asking questions:

'How would I raise those funds?'
'But that would result in 10K of costs, so you wouldn't get x, you'd get y'.
'Where would I live?'
'What about the legal/tax implications?'

Etc.

Neither you NOR your brother have any obligation to return a financial gift.
It is totally irrelevant what it was spent on, be it prostitutes and drugs, given to a Satanic cult, holidays, cars or houses.

It doesn’t matter if you have fifteen or zero children either.

Furthermore, it isn’t as if your mother is in penury; she has a house and had a load of cash, too.
She wants to move to somewhere a bit posher on a whim.
You don’t have to indulge her.

Cheeky cow, she sounds as though she's ready to guilt trip you into homelessness.
Please don't.

Let her speak, do not make any offers... do not even try to get her to justify this - just say that you are totally blindsided by this request, that you accepted the money in good faith, used it to buy your house so do not have the money to give to her.

Then leave...

So when you meet with mum tomorrow, you need to firstly say you don't have £50,000. And leave it there. Don't fill the silence or offer any alternative. If she then mentions selling the house, you ask if she really wants you homeless so she can live in a posh area. And let the silence hang. And then remind her of the above. That she gifted you the money and signed documents to that effect. And that any attempt to say it wasn't a gift will probably lead to her being investigated for fraud. And that even if you did sell up the £50,000 would be used up in legal fees so plainly, it's not going to happen.Plus you would be homeless.
Remind her that you appreciated her generosity but you don't have any money to gift her and she needs to fund her relocation herself.

Good advice there. As is @WiddlinDiddlin's suggestion of putting her in the position of answering those questions and making her come up with solutions to the specific problems. Which she won't be able to.

But most of all, stay calm and logical and don't weaken. Keep it all factual, and don't suggest anything that has you giving her anything.

I meant for the mum to prove she wasn’t of sound mind when she gave the money!

Don’t mention selling your house or releasing equity. “mum, I’ve spent that money as it was a gift. I can’t repay you, I don’t have it.”
Repeat.
She would have to have some balls on her to suggest selling your house. If she does, I would laugh and say “you can’t be serious?”