She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

This.

She’s also a bit daft to do this as it does have implications for inheritance tax. If she gave it to you five years ago then it’s a potentially exempt transfer if she doesn’t die in the next two years. at that point it will have been out of her estate for seven years.

If for any reason you felt you should gift that money back now, it would then potentially be a subject to inheritance tax if she dies within the next seven years.

Of course if your mother is 50 and not 75 or 80 she maybe not worried about that. Or if her estate isn’t big enough to potentially be liable to inheritance tax.

Surely the mum would already know this. If you're given a generous gift,you're going to the the person your plans with the money, surely? So she will have known it was put to use in buying a home.
OP you're sounding a little soft in your recent updates,if you don't mind me saying. I hope you stand up for yourself.

Presumably you are yourself quite attached to your house, given you have chosen it and lived there in the last years since the gift!? I just can’t get my head around even the suggestion that you could sell it for your mothers whims and lofty desires. OP, please. Reframe this as many times as you like in as many ways until you see it as the unbelievably shocking and unthinkable thing we all are.

“Daughter, please sell your beloved chosen home you’re settled, secure and happy in, With no back up plan or major funds to re-settle yourself. Yes you may incur legal troubles but the 100k I kept for myself and seemingly haven’t spent doesn’t stretch to the size of diamonds I really desire”

I have gifted money to my DDs as has my mum to us and would never dream of asking for it back. It isn't accessible as you invested it in your home. Is she saying she wants you to sell up so she can live in a more expensive area?

I think I would struggle to even see her let alone accommodate her strange request. She gifted it and declared it as a gift. She also gifted to your brother and is not asking for it back as he spent it? Well so did you.

I would pay no attention to the sister getting involved. If it was an inheritance she kept £100k and presumably has a house already so can use that, people don't get to ask for gifts to be returned especially as she is not in dire need.

Tell her you would have to sell your home to raise that money and ask her if that’s what she wants.

If she says yes, then she is completely awful and I would say no and live with whatever iciness she decides to bestow upon you. What a cow

On what basis could she say she was not of sound mind? Has her mental capacity ever been called into question?

Seriously OP, don't even entertain the idea. The money isn't hers anymore. It's gone.

I think I’d want to know, in detail, what has happened to that £100k.
Assuming she owns where she currently lives and lives alone, let’s say an average house at the average house price of £240k ish and has £100k lump sum… I mean, £340k is a healthy budget for a 1-2 bed downsizing property in a lot of the country.
Before you meet her, casually ask your DB if she has mentioned moving or asked him for money.

OP you're sounding a little soft in your recent updates,if you don't mind me saying. I hope you stand up for yourself.

I also hope OP stands up for herself, but we could maybe cut her a little slack here. Unless one has experience of a parent making a gobsmackingly unreasonable request (I certainly don't), I'm not sure that any of us know how we would react. We love our parents like they love us, and it's usually on the basis that help will given if asked for and needed. If OP's Mum had no money and was facing eviction that would be one thing, but as OP describes it, this is "WTF?" territory and seemingly not part of a long-term abusive relationship.

It's a gift. You didn't force her to give the money, didn't follow her to the ATM machine and put her pin details in on CCTV so I wonder if she has any grounds to ask for this back. Have you got anything in writing from the time she gave this as a gift, because that could help you. Interesting when you write that your brother hasn't been asked. That sounds quite unfair.

OP - do you think your mum is of sound mind NOW?

Does she have form for things like this?

she can't afford it then, which is her problem not yours.

She might make promises to give you more when she dies but she might change her mind, brother might contest it (especially if she keeps it quiet you helped her with the money) so do not go down that route either.

I think that it's very likely that she'll offer to leave the money to you in her will, instead. But if she needs care that money will be gone.
This happened with my mum. The entire proceeds of her house and all her savings went to pay for her care. She died in debt rather than leaving anything for us. Her promise to leave her grandchildren money towards house deposits came to nothing.

So no, don't accept that. The money was legally a gift and that's all there is to it. And leaving one's daughter homeless is just unspeakable behaviour.

She can’t say she wasn’t of sound mind as solicitors were involved with paperwork etc, so forget that.

I would just ask-seriously mum, you would wish to see me homeless so that you can buy a more expensive property than the one you have currently? And how about darling bro-is he to sell up as well to return your “gift”? Or is it just me? Are you also playing favourites?

Either way, the answer is no. I am not willing to make myself homeless and i really can’t believe that my mother would ask me to.

@Rosscameasdoody is correct, a solicitor was involved and the money was legally recognized as a gift.

The cash no longer exists anyway as it’s tied up in your house so no, she can’t have it back.

Maybe suggest that she goes to a solicitor to inquire what to do about taking back a gift…perhaps that would make her realize that a legal gift is just that, she can’t renege on it now.

Honestly, what an awful situation for you, OP. She’s not asking for the money because she’s in dire financial straits, that would be more understandable, she just fancies moving to an expensive area. 😡

I have done this ( give money to my kids as a deposit for a house ). I had to get a letter from my solicitor to their solicitor doing the conveyancing to say that it was a outright gift and I had no claim over their property.

This was required by the mortgage lenders as they need proof that no one else has a claim over the house, if they ever had to foreclose on the mortgage and have to sell the property. They want to be the only debtors.

My kids also has to sign a doc to say they were not married, as otherise their spouse would have a legal claim.

So there is no way legally that your mother can claim that it wasn’t a gift/ she didn’t understand what she was doing / she was not of sound mind etc. there’s no way that mortgage lenders would leave a legal loophole.

Im sure she is more likely to do emotional blackmail as she has no recourse in law.

This must be very hurtful for you @HereForItMaybe

And because everybody is mentioning that legally the money was gifted to the OP, sure. The OP however clearly sees this as cold hearted to tell. And that's what her DM will take advantage of. Well then morally the mother has wasted 100k and can't be bothered her DD will have to sell her house. If it makes any difference to you OP, please, please, please don't waste your security so she can live in luxury! Rents keep increasing and you want to be rent/mortgage free by retirement age.

Please take note of this OP.

Beyond the already absurd request to sell your home to hand the gift back to begin with, this could have really serious consequences for you if the mortgage company decide you lied to them/acted fraudulently.

Your mother could (financially and otherwise) destroy the rest of your life, in more ways than one, if you even entertain this.

(and no, that doesn’t mean you should instead start a conversation with her about other ways you could raise the funds like selling your car and taking out loans!)

As for her not asking your brother because he has children and more responsibilities, that’s irrelevant because of how he chose to spend the money. He blew it on cars and holidays which to me says he didn’t need it and had no real use for it. If he’s rolling in it that much then suggest she asks him for a loan or help to fund her house as a part owner.

I would make it clear that you won't be selling your house to give her the money back. And insist on an answer as why she didn't ask you both to help her since she gave you both inheritance money.

I would also be saying 'absolutely not' in your situation, OP. You will have all kind of financial and legal implications potentially while she saunters off into an area she can't afford and your brother has had a glorious time blowing the money, despite having family responsibilities of his own. Just no.

In all of this I suspect OP's DM doesn't understand the nature of a gift, which has been declared a gift for legal purposes so that OP could use it as her deposit. DM appears to think a gift is a sort of loan, and you can have it back if you want it (I had an aunt who did this continuously, luckily it did not involve large sums of money). She wants to live in an expensive area and thinks she can have back her gift without any penalties, her DD will just have to sell her house and hand back 50k. That it isn't like that is beyond her ken. OP needs to explain all the legal ramifications shown on this board and also emphasise that she is not going to sell her house because to do so to return the 50k is of dubious legality, and is not handing over her savings either, both requests are entirely unreasonable. Her DM had 100k - what did she do with it?

Absolutely! Most people would be offended and express it.

OP, it feels like you're waffling. I'm kind of wondering what your childhood was like.

Make no mistake, your mother is completely in the wrong to ask for the money back. Even if you had just stuck it in the bank and let it sit there for 5 years and not spent a dime of it she would still be in the wrong for asking for it back.

Now if that had been the case, I think it would have been okay to help her out a some, if you wanted to. But given that you don't have the money anymore, you simply are unable to give it back. It's not even a decision, really, because you literally don't have it.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

@HereForItMaybe keep the money, it may be all you ever get from your dm.

You can't compromise your own security (getting on the property ladder again?) to ensure her comfort

Security trumps comfort

I wonder whether your mum has seen a house for sale on the internet, and has fallen in love with a dream she can't afford. Maybe she's thinking that if she hadn't gifted the money then she could afford that dream? There must be a reason why she's suddenly asked, otherwise she'd find a cheaper house in that area, or move to a less expensive area.

But she is being completely unreasonable to ask for the money to be returned. Where does she think you would live? And your aunt is being unreasonable too.

Even if you could find somewhere smaller / cheaper for yourself, once you paid estate agent fees, solicitors costs, stamp duty etc how much of the £50K wold be left? If she was effectively forcing you to do this it should not be your savings that are paying for it.

I gave my dc money when I recieved an inheritance. What my dc did with it was their choices, it was an unconditional gift, no strings, no guilt. If I still had that money I might be building an extension and getting my garden landscaped, but I gave the money away. At their stages in life they need it much more than I do.

I have been watching this thread, absolutely gobsmacked by your mum, FWIW.

"I'm only guessing, but I think she won't have asked my brother as he has children and I don't, so she feels he has more responsibility (which he does, being a dad)."

I just wanted to jump in here because it's a bugbear of mine: your achievements, your choices, your responsibilities and your outgoings are no less real or valid because they are not children.

As a childfree adult, I spoke to my ex about splitting expenses if we were to cohabit with his 1DC who he had 50/50. He suggested a 50/50 split which I refused because I did not agree to paying 50/50 when the household would be three people 50% of the time. He went on to say that as a non-parent, my outgoings were more "flexible" than his. I hit the roof. My mortgage or my other financial committments are not less real because my choices did not include children.

There is no "don't worry, pay another month" clause on mortgages, pensions, savings plans or other financial commitments because one is single or child-free.

Many have covered the fact that one cannot reclaim a gift that was freely given. You have also made legal declarations, made decisions, and spent the money in line with it being a gift. Therefore, your mum's ask is unreasonable anyway. Your aunt can just fuck off, this is not her business.

The bit that gets me (and I hope that you are able to get some clarity on this tomorrow) is:

• Are you certain she has not asked your brother? (I know you have said she hasn't but I have form for stewing over things without all the facts). If she has deinititely not asked your brother:
• Is it because daughters are just expected to be more helpful, more amenable? (this is BS and you need to push back hard)
• Is it because your house is a visible asset as opposed to his holiday & car spaff fest? (the house is your home and no one, least of all your mother, should expect you to give it up or put yourself in financial peril for their whims)
• Is it because she expects a quid pro quo? (She is a functioning, sentient adult who made a financial decision 5 years ago. It is not your duty or responsibility to deal with the consequences of the actions of another adult, even if they are your mother.)

And just in case I was not clear enough before, do not let yourself be brow beaten into believing that asking you for this money back is just more "logical". It is not. She asks either both or you, or neither of you.

And I agree with PP who have said that the correct response is "that 50k was a gift which I have since spent. I am unable to help you financially. I can help you seek advice on downsizing on your current budget."