She wants the gifted money back

[HereForItMaybe]

I'll keep it short - DM very kindly gifted myself and my brother £50k each, 5 years ago.

She has now asked for it back. My brother has not been asked.

AIBU to say no?

Pretty sure that needs signing off by a doctor, so no. She gave you a gift, all legal and above board and she knows the money has gone. You need to remind her of that and tell her to repay it, you would need to sell your house, which of course you won't be ding. She must know she is being insanely unreasonable to request money already spent back. She made a decision to gift it (GIFT!) and cannot expect a penny back legally or morally. I think she is very impulsive and silly. So what if your brother has dc? You still went and bought a house on the basis that she GIFTED you money. She cannot expect you to simply give it back when it is no longer there. You need to spell it out to her that the money is gone.

I’m astounded that she expects you to sell your house to return what was clearly a gift given years ago and even more astounded that you would countenance such an idea.

@HereForItMaybe I can't find it now but a poster mentioned that she could say she was not in sound mind at the time of giving the money, so she could have legal standing to force repayment anyway?
I think what they said is that, if you NOW try to help her plan her finances, it could look like you've influenced her. NOT in relation to her making the original gift. I don't think this could happen anyway, it doesn't sound like she has lost capacity, quite the opposite.
Please don't offer any money, matching your brother or otherwise, and don't get brow beaten if you meet up with her which sounds quite possible.

Really? She could say that was the one time she wasn’t of sound mind after signing a load of legal paperwork but she’s now totally of sound mind to sell her house and ask for her money back requiring you to make yourself homeless 🥴.

This is the fundermental reason why people gifting money have to sign paperwork. She would of been advised to take independent legal advice. And if you give it back to her you will have to sign paper work saying you have no claim to it.

Also. You should speak to your mortgage advisor about how much equity you actually have in the house what the fees for selling would include as well as early repayment fees on your mortgage or remortgaging to take out more equity.

Also what will happen if they house sale doesn’t go through for 6mnths and in the mean time she changes her mind.

Yes he has responsibilities as a father but instead he chose to blow it on cars and a holiday!

I understand everyone saying just to say no, but it doesn't feel as simple as that (or maybe I'm too sensitive?).

I’ve been reading a lot about Mel Robbins “Let Them” theory which I think is really helpful with these people pleasing family dynamics. It’s really simple which is what I like - and I think it might help you here.

first you say “let them”
your Mum thinks you ought to give her some money? She thinks you should sell your house to fund her lifestyle (which is so obviously unreasonable I’m stunned she’d ask it)? She thinks this is really her money anyway? When you say “no” She’ll be disappointed. She’ll guilt you. She’ll make you feel like a bad daughter?
Let her
all that is on her
you don’t have to respond or react

then you say “let me”
this is where you lean into your values and what’s important to you
What does loving your Mum and being a “good daughter” mean to you?
I think you’ve been very clear here that you are willing to help her out but it should be fairly split between you and your brother, and selling your own home isn’t an option.

stick to what you know and feel is right for you

tbh it really doesn’t sound like you can afford to help her with this house purchase. You don’t have massive savings yourself. Surely she can find somewhere £50k cheaper??

As you made a declaration that the £50k was a loan, how will you explain needing to downsize with same mortgage to release the funds?
It’s going to look like the declaration was fraudulent.

Cars that are somehow, for some reason, much harder to sell than a house with a mortgage and all the legal obligations tied to it??

Tell her to start looking at HW lease if she can't afford where she wants to move to - you get 30% off approximately if she's over 60 and pick on open market - it's a lousy scheme and bugger goes a lot of your inheritance ( although you can preserve a percentage) but I would be damned if I would give it back

Surely the legal standing to force repayment would also apply to your brother? She couldn't really say that she was not of sound mind when she gifted you £50k but she was of sound mind when she gifted £50k to your brother at the very same time?

Its just not the same as "I gifted you money now give it back". She was in a position to gift you the money, she had plenty. You are not in a position to return the gift. You don't have plenty. In fact, you would have to sell your home.
Think of the other ways that this is going to cost you, not just £50000 for £50000. You may have to pay stamp duty to buy another home. The cost of conveyancing, moving, redecorating etc. I imagine that your current interest rate is lower than what you will get now. This is going to end up costing you a lot more than £50000.
I hope you can talk some sense into her tomorrow.

It was definitely a gift (and declared a gift as part of the anti laundering procedures taken by my conveyancing solicitor). It was never referred to as a loan, by anyone at any point.

Don’t offer her anything! Whatever you do make NO commitment verbally or otherwise. It was a GIFT. You no longer have the liquid cash as it’s now tied up in bricks and mortar.

Exactly, so making any effort to give this money back could get you in serious legal trouble, besides everything else that’s wrong with your DM’s request.

As she gifted it, she can't expect you to give it back.

SIBU

How can she expect you to raise it? Bizarre.

What will you do?

Hope you can find an understanding, tell her - I spent it (by buying a house) so has my brother (by buying cars and a holiday). Why don’t the three of us talk about this, see how we can help you with the mortgage? Re not in sound mind - not so easy to prove, and the questions that lawyers might ask are - were you of unsound mind when you gifted it to your daughter but the next second of sound mind when you gifted it to your brother? How come you are of sound mind now - have you had psychiatric treatment? You suddenly want to get the gifts back and move to an overly expensive area and possibly want to maintain a lavish lifestyle in that area and incur significant debt - might these be the signs that you are actually of less than sound mind now and your children should have control over your finances? If everyone relatively old could claim that they were of unsound mind every time they regretted buying or gifting something, the economy would suffer, and courts do not support this actually.

Try not to get upset by the emotional manipulation from your aunt (you’re a greedy person because you’re not giving your gitf back). It’s bonkers! Imagine getting a gift for your birthday and using it (let’s say a bottle of champagne, and you drank it), and the donor later says - give it back to me, I regret giving it to you. Would you go and buy them the champagne? No, I’d imagine you’d say - it’s bonkers, what are you saying, I drank it!

That just wouldn't make sense. Was it 5 years ago she gave you the money? So she would be suggesting that 5 years ago she was not in sound mind when giving you AND your brother the money but now 5 years in she is of sound mind and is asking ONLY you for the money back? That is nonsense and I don't see that standing.

Most people downsize to free up money, not pay more. As previously said, talk to her about the budget and the cost of living as it doesn't sound like she can afford to move where she wants so either needs to downsize to somewhere she can afford or stay out. Does she work? Is she hoping to buy property outright?

@HereForItMaybe whatever you do - DO NOT SELL YOUR HOME just to pander to her. As a mother I cannot imagine asking such a thing of my dc. Simply horrible of her to ask for the money back.

Thank you - this hits hard (in an enlightening way).

It does help to read the replies saying it's just not something they'd ever do (ask for it back).

Cash gifts are potentially very messy wrt taxes
You have to pay tax on them if the gifter dies within seven years of gifting
If you give or receive a cash gift you have to declare it for tax purposes, if you fill out a self-assessment form
(It gets even worse if it's a non-cash gift, so we won't go there)
So while the obvious answer is, sorry mum, I used it all, I can't get that sort of money back, you could also let her know the issues with the HMRC if you did

No nono, this is very cruel of your mother to do to you.

I can't believe it, OP. What a MEAN thing to do. Do not lose your lovely home, please. Please!

Do not breathe a single word tomorrow to her that it has even crossed your mind to sell / release equity. Honestly, don't do it.

Just say you do not have spare.money to gift anything towards her house purchase.

She can talk to the brother, he might also take advantage of the OP being soft and nice, turn the water works on with poor me boo hoo and she will justify his behaviour. Or he might simply agree on the surface and years later we will have another thread saying "Found out my brother never gave mum the money." Or "mum never asked DB for the money although she had said otherwise. And now he also has more inheritance although I nursed DM and ran her to all doctors appointments". Or the house was eaten in care fees.

OP you are already finding excuses for your DB, you don't even need your DM to convince you! You keep thinking about others and their problems and how to solve them but nobody's thinking about you. They don't feel bad. Keep remembering that! Your mother will keep saying she needs this and that when you meet her and nothing about your needs. At best she might offer you more inheritance but everything might be possibly eaten by care fees or simply ignored as you will see in multiple threads on here.

She couldn’t say she wasn’t of sound mind at all. A solicitor was involved in declaring the money a gift as part of the money laundering rules when the mortgage was taken out. The solicitor would have had to abide by the law and satisfy themselves that DM was of sound mind before the transaction took place.