An update to all who responded to my thread about dropping out of uni...

[yakamoza]

Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone who has given me advice on my thread about my son wanting to drop out of uni. And, of course, I am here again to give an update on that and ask for more advice on how to cope with what's happened since my last post.

Since my son wasn't responding to our texts or calls, we decided to reach out to his gf and she told us he's not been going to lectures at all and generally had no motivation to do anything. She told us that even when she suggests doing various things at the weekend, he isn't that enthusiastic about it and doesn't want to do anything. She then told us that they decided to split and therefore wouldn't be seeing as much of each other as before.

After we spoke to his gf, I was extremely concerned by what she told us as this was a completely misaligned with what he had been telling us before Christmas. He himself wasn't responding to my requests for calls or my texts, so last week my husband and I decided to drive up to his uni accommodation to see him. You probably will not believe it but a) his gf was in his room with him and b) out of embarrassment or something else, he refused to open the door and speak to us!

I had to call my sister and ask her husband to speak to him since my son always had a good relationship with him. In the end, he informed even him that he decided to quit uni and focus on YouTube. My BIL told him it wasn't acceptable to keep ignoring your parents and refuse to open the door and see them after they drove to see you for 2 hours and suggested that he calls and apologises. He did call in the end but rather than apologise told us that it was always our idea for him to go to uni rather than his and he doesn't want to pursue that anymore. At that point, my husband informed him that we would respect his decision but also would have to stop funding both his accommodation and living expenses and he'd have to work something out himself. He said fine and that's how that conversation ended.

I don't really know what I am here to ask or what I expect to hear. I know that we have likely gone badly wrong somewhere and failed as parents but I am still so heartbroken and sad about the level of deceipt that we have uncovered as my son was telling us throughout October, November, December and even January that he really understood how important it was for him to study and how he was spending all his time in the library. He asked us to help him buy a new laptop in November as his old one wasn't working well. We did buy one as we really thought he needed it to study.

I am now just completely shocked that he has essentially been lying to us for months and pretty much doing nothing while we have been funding his accommodation and living expenses and he has been incurring debt on his tuition fees while doing absolutely nothing as described by his girlfriend. I do realise that he may be suffering from depression and I did tell him that we can get help if he is depressed and that we would always be there for him too. He just ignored all that, and I am still really worried, concerned and at the same time disgusted by all the lies he's been telling us about studying while accepting our money for living expenses and accommodation and essentially wasting it all on nothing. I also discovered he took out the maintenance loan from the Student Loan Company despite the fact that we have been funding his groceries and rent. I have no idea where the money has been going and what he's been spending it on as he doesn't buy clothes, gadgets, go out or does anything else that could explain his expenses.

I know that I shouldn't be making this about how I feel and that I should be working out how I can help him but I just can't stop thinking about his deception and wondering where I went wrong as a parent while also worrying about his future. I also can't stop feeling deceived and disgusted with the whole situation and can't stop blaming myself for doing an abysmal job as a parent as we evidently went very wrong somewhere... I don't really know where and how to find a way forward from this and what to do, so I am hoping to hear some advice from other parents.

I feel for you. You sound self-aware, worried and lost. I just wanted to say that your son isn't the first person who has done this, and probably on some level feels a sense of shame that he hasn't met your expectations. Maybe university is not for him - there are lots of ways to succeed without having a degree and your son will find his way. He's only young. Good luck xx

I personally wouldn’t contact girlfriend.
I also wouldn’t pay his rent as that could be perceived as interference.
Negative effects of weed smoking sounds very likely.
I suspect he’ll manage to stay at uni until he can’t re enroll in September for yr3. I know a young man who experienced mental health issues and completely failed to engage from February (no attendance, no essays, no exams - he was previously an engaged high mark student who literally dropped off face of earth and uni did absolutely nothing not even a welfare check, they’ve had their money for the year.
Keep communication open. Perhaps weekly messages saying you are thinking about him and if he needs anything to let you know.

ps. His own uni may have a course he can transfer to, at least to finish the year. If they have a media related department - these sometimes offer short courses to students in other departments or a computing department that might have some short courses in visual editing software... A student radio?

I agree to some extent, and there was a long thread on here not so long ago about the way career advice is too university focused, with people giving examples of this being the case (and saying they wished they hadn't done it) for at least 20 years now, from when TB started his focus on increasing university entrance.

However, there is also some onus on the individual to have some other idea of what they might want to do. In this case, it sounds like, even if the school hadn't pushed university, OP's DS wouldn't have come up with anything else himself.

-He doesn't seem to have any interests in anything that would lead to a vocational training scheme or apprenticeship instead
-He's tried working and didn't like that
-He doesn't seem to have either the skills or desire to work for himself ("I'm going to be a famous youtuber" without any research, skills, or ideas about what this will involve sounds like the sort of thing an 8 year old might say about "what do you want to be when you grow up" rather than a 23 year old).

So even if the school hadn't pushed uni sounds like he would have spent the time just sitting in his bedroom at mum and dads instead.

Before tuition fees increased you can see why, for people without other ideas, uni could be a good option - get some independence, could pick up new interests and skills, might find a career that does interest you, and even if you still don't know what you want to do after 3 years you get a qualification at the end of it, which even if it doesn't translate directly into a job, last a lifetime and gets you that tick-box for 'degree' (any degree) that so many jobs use now to weed out candidates even if it isn't actually needed. The problem now is that the 'fall back' option results in tens of thousands of debt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c516gx7p4ygo

This is a sad case and there are many others.

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff Imagine someone telling you to find a job or move out in two weeks or else.

I do agree with you and at the same time I would like him to start doing something rather than nothing at all and on this occasion I don't mean studying but, let's say, starting to think about what he needs to do next to secure alternative accommodation, look for a job, etc.

Even if he called us and asked us to extend his lease by a month or two months, I would do that but I also worry that if I just extended his lease by 2 months by default so to speak, he would just continue doing what he is doing, which is not much like he hasn't done anything with our suggestions to change course to something he liked doing or finding another job given that he didn't like his previous one. If it was digital media or film making or whatever, I would not object to that in any way at all.

I understand what you meant by not coming across as supportive. I recognise more generally that sometimes both I and my husband can seem like that as we are both more logical than emotional and naturally empathetic and in this type of situations we would be more likely to think about what needs to be done in terms of actions to be taken rather than how to be warm and supportive as parents. It can be unfortunate for children to have both parents inclined that way... I will reflect on what you are saying and perhaps contact him again at the end of this week to give him some time to calm down a little, so maybe we can talk. I am not really sure who else to contact given that he has cut out all his friends.

I contacted the university's wellbeing team too on suggestion of others to see if they could also suggest anything to us. Thank you for your advice.

Which uni is it? I can recommend messaging iambenwest on Instagram etc - have a look at his profile he is a HUGE advocate and voice on welfare within university- he will gladly help you on this I'm sure. It's disgusting the uni haven't responded to you.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-63075852

Universities are doing more to help it doesn't matter if they are in private accommodation. Raise concerns to the university it is so important.

@sparrowflewdown and @Funykeudfh thank you for your kind suggestions. I have found another contact on the university's web page and have written to them again. If I don't hear from them this time, I will also give them a call. My BIL also said he will give him some time and will then check in with him again.

At the moment, I am not very concerned about him not having money for food and other basics as he should have just received a part of his maintenance loan, so unless he has already spent it on weed or something like that, he should have at least some money to cover the basics. I will give him few days to calm down and try to contact him at the end of the week again.

Hi @yakamoza Sorry I didn't mean to give you the impression that I thought you were not supportive, clearly you are as you've got him through school, into uni and are supporting him financially and want to help him. I also don't want to dismiss the awful worry you are going through.
I am influenced in my thoughts on this by my close friend's DD who has done a four year degree and been job hunting, admittedly in a very competitive field since for five months. They apply for all the jobs in their field that they can. The application (which can be very time consuming) goes in up to four or five stages and they've been in the final stage for at least four jobs, but even though they have some experience (voluntary atm ) and can demonstrate it, they don't get it because the person who does has already had professional experience. It's not easy.
What I was trying to look at was a way to improve communications between you. From the sound of it, he doesn't tell you much about what he is doing. It could be that he's doing nothing or it could be that he doesn't know the best way to proceed in what he's doing, which is why I suggested looking a bit more closely at the whole YT idea. It is not as useless as a pp suggested, because it didn't sound like he planned to be "an influencer" but because teaching himself video editing and building himself some intelligent reels might well be one of the skills that adds something positive to his CV and gets him that first opportunity.
But it is very difficult sometimes to know where to start. at that could be part of the problem he's having. Which is why his uni careers service might be able to help. And even if you end your course, they often continue to provide free appointments for at least a year, sometimes two. Maybe you could contact them yourself and ask what they could do... and then let him know (that you didn't give names) but they said if he makes an appointment they can go through xyz with him? That might be the kind of thing that helps him make the road map you are aiming for?
But if he's serious, yet doesn't know where to start, it might also help to suggest links to some suitable courses which might inspire him and the starting point is looking at places with big media departments (more facilities) or even local courses if he moves back home. UCAS is good for this but it is time consuming and he's more likely to respond to a list of two or three that are really relevant to him.
However, I do understand that you can "lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink". I just think it might be a change of approach.

Are you in wiwikau Facebook group? What I wish I knew about university for parents.
There’s a lady posted an update today saying her son is doing well with a flat and working for the council, 3 yrs ago he’d been pretending to go to uni yr2 and she’s resorted to turning up at his flat. It’s a lovely post and lots of similarities.

I don't really go on Facebook that much but may try and join the group. Thank you for sharing 😊

I don’t want say her name on here but if you look at posts today you should see it if not please message me. It also mentions how many parents of young men reached out to her at time with similar stories. Her son had just got himself in hole and buried his head. He’s had counselling and sounds like he’s doing well 3 yrs later.

Thank you. I will definitely take a look.

I have also amazingly had a response from the university team I contacted earlier today. They said they couldn't discuss any specifics with me about my son's studies or issues due to GDPR but they tried calling him and left a message and also contacted him by email requesting acknowledgment of receipt. I am sort of sure he is going to ignore them but at least that's a start!

I agree and get him to talk to his tutors.
My ds became ill in his last year. It didn't look like he would pass, and he wasn't able to hand in most of the work due or take the exams.
He spoke to his tutors who arranged something for a final grade and pass.

The truth is universities don't want their funding cut so have things they can do to stop people dropping out so close to the end of their degree.

It sounds like your son was not able to cope with the transition to living independently and managing his responsibilities. He's far from unusual in this. It takes a maturity that many don't have at his age. That's not your fault. Whether he has developed mental health problems or is simply being an immature young man, doing what he wants instead of the sensible thing, isn't really clear without a diagnosis. All you can do is be aware of the signs of mental health problems, without necessarily assuming he is ill as oppose to just irresponsible. Practically I think its important you don't facilitate him in this behaviour, so cutting off funding was a good idea. I think now it's just a case of watchful waiting. Wait to see what he decides to do next while keeping an eye on his welfare. Staying amicable will be key to that, so try to rein in your feelings and urge to chastise him and keep a light friendly contact, message regularly even if you're ignored. Realistically unless he gets a job he's going to end up back home and you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

That’s good uni took seriously.
I’d be prepared for angry backlash as he’ll see it as interfering. But I’d just say as he wouldn’t open door or respond to you it was a welfare issue.
He can do what he wants - live with gf, YouTube etc but needs to be clear with you and uni not pretend he’s a student and take money in that basis from you and SFE.

Good news about the uni @yakamoza. Even if he ignores their attempts to get in contact, they'll be able to see that he hasn't been attending lectures and will probably want him to make a decision on whether he's going to finish the year.

I’m going to add a different perspective. I’m not saying this to try and make you feel bad, OP, but rather to try and get you to look at the is from your son’s perspective instead of your own.

I dropped out of uni the first time round. I went and studied something my parents wanted me to study and I had no desire to do. My parents swore blind for years that they never forced me to do it, but all of their talk to me, to others, generally, made me feel like I had no choice in the matter.

I had a shitty upbringing. Alcoholism and narcissism in the family. Now while I’m not saying this is your family, or your son’s experience, what I have come to realise now I am much older, is that my parents felt they really were trying their best and doing the right thing even though I can see by most people’s standards they were not remotely achieving that. I don’t say this to try and insinuate you are horrible abusive people, but rather to point out that often we are unaware of our own part in someone else’s play.

Now, the reason I say all the above is that reading through your comments it stood out to me very clearly that you don’t really like or respect your son and you aren’t really proud of him. The way you speak of him is actually quite scornful. You say things about how he has never had any motivation, never taken responsibility, has never known what he wants to do, has never bothered studying. The list goes on. I could ask why didn’t you instil those things in your child before he became the adult he is, but that may be deviating from my point which is mostly that if I can feel those things from you in just a few comments, I wonder how your son generally feels about how you see him.

Couple this with his behaviour (not calling you, refusing to speak to you, not wanting to see you, feeling ashamed) - well, in the context of the above, I can see why. I was the same. And I was ashamed of myself. My parents were not proud of me, they thought I was basically useless, and so I learned to think of myself as useless. I didn’t demand better from myself because what was the point? I wasn’t good enough. My dropping out from uni was inevitable because they had made it as such.

During my time at uni I was deeply depressed - I had no direction, I had no idea who I was, I didn’t think anyone cared. I got into an abusive relationship. After I left uni, I went to live back with my parents and my parents immediately insisted I got a job. There were no real attempts to consider who I was or what I wanted or what my preferences (however unrealistic) were. I was not heard.

Fast forward a couple of decades, I’m super low contact with my family. Only my mother is left now. She still thinks I’m the uni drop-out and that I have a shitty job. She doesn’t know I went back to uni later and studied in an area wholly unpractical but that I absolutely loved. And I thrived. I went on to do postgrad too. I have a great job, one I would never have had if I hadn’t followed my heart later. I’m happy. And she doesn’t get to hear anything about any of it because I made a promise to myself, once I put myself through years of therapy, that I wouldn’t allow myself to be in a position like that again.

I genuinely wish you well. I’m not sure how the above will land with you. But perhaps it’s worth considering.

reading through your comments it stood out to me very clearly that you don’t really like or respect your son and you aren’t really proud of him. The way you speak of him is actually quite scornful. You say things about how he has never had any motivation, never taken responsibility, has never known what he wants to do, has never bothered studying. The list goes on. I could ask why didn’t you instil those things in your child before he became the adult he is, but that may be deviating from my point which is mostly that if I can feel those things from you in just a few comments, I wonder how your son generally feels about how you see him.

@Donotwantnot Firstly, thank you for sharing your story. I am grateful for all replies and perspectives given here.

It would be absolutely fair to ask why I or my husband and I did not cultivate the right behaviours in our son or did not give him sufficient discipline, taught him how to take responsibility etc, etc. I asked myself those kind of questions and reflected on my own behaviour, spoke to my husband about this at least a million times, and I'd be lying if I said that on reflection we concluded we were perfect parents.

Firstly, you are quite right in pointing out that everything I say and/or do or have done may have been coming across exactly as you described for years. Both my husband and I grew up in families which never really expressed those types of feelings to us (and not because our parents were abusive alcoholics or narcissists but they just weren't emotionally expressive) and we basically grew up to be pretty similar to our own parents. I wouldn't actually even say we express a great deal in terms of feelings to each other but we have a strong relationship nonetheless because I guess our feelings are expressed in our actions and we as adults understand that. On reflection, I think this is a lot harder for children. I never actually thought about this when both my son and I were younger but in retrospect I can see that children cannot actually read our minds from our actions or anything of that sort and need to be told how you feel about them and what they do. Sadly, I don't think we did that enough.

Secondly, while we spent a lot of time helping our son do his homework in his primary school, we largely left that to his own responsibility in secondary school and later. I don't really want to keep criticising him but unfortunately it's still true that he has never really wanted to take responsibility either for his own studies or had any interest in various hobbies or other activities. I accept this may have been our fault. Naturally, as he got older it has become harder to actually feel genuine pride as my husband and I have both been brought up essentially by outcome/results orientated parents, who basically measured their own "pride" of us on achievements/results but never really expressed their feelings of our achievements anyway.

I suppose it would be natural to ask why I haven't done anything to change myself and adjust my behaviour if I understood all this but I never really gave it much thought when my son was younger. The truth is I don't really know how to change it and how to feel pride in the situation that I have described here because now I am just seeing the problem. I guess one could say it's a day late and a dollar short (quite literally) but we are here now, and I really wish I knew how to do be different.

Thank you again for sharing your story. I think it was necessary for me to hear it!

Thanks, OP. Your reply doesn’t suggest to me it’s too late. If you want to change your approach to your son you can. Have you considered therapy for yourself to assist with this?

Perhaps think about removing the idea of achievement from the equation. Your son is worthwhile simply because he is human. He deserves love, respect, and space to become who he is - including making mistakes. Mistakes are okay. It’s how we learn. Dropping out of uni isn’t a death sentence. Have you told him, without caveat or conditions, how much you love him recently? Just that, nothing more. No ‘what are you going to do about X?’ Or ‘I love you BUT…’.

If you make him feel safe then the rest will come. You don’t have to write off the rest of your relationship or his life or his career. You do have the power to change this. Show him your vulnerability.

Good luck!

I am messaging to let you know my son did a similar thing in his last year at school and uni. Like you I was paying for his private school fees and then his uni. As a single parent it was not easy to afford....

My son was depressed and too afraid to face the reality of life so was ignoring his studies and gaming.

He failed his final year. I forgave him and supported him and 2 years on he has a good job and a lovely gf

I tell you my tale so you know you are not alone in your shock and disappointment. I hope you and your son work things out ❤️

Have you considered therapy for yourself to assist with this?

@Donotwantnot yes the thought has occurred to me recently as I have started more generally thinking that a lot of my own behaviour is driven by high anxiety. For example, when my son doesn't answer his calls or texts, I imagine all kinds of things and most of them are pretty terrible. I don't know if most people are like that or not but I don't think I should be imagining the end of the world so often! I am still concerned about him and everything that's going on with him but I also recognise that maybe trying to solve every problem for him including his current issues isn't really the answer. And, yes, I still struggle to express my feelings and emotions too because it's something that's basically become a part of my personality over the years and where previously I never saw a problem with just being a logical, outcome driven person, I now recognise that it's not a problem only for our bosses at work!

Thank you again for your advice and suggestions and for taking time to write to me.

How is your son today @yakamoza

@minerva7 he is still not answering texts or calls but my sister told me he texted her husband to ask him what needs to be done to get a work visa in the US, where they live. He said he may consider working there. Unfortunately, my sister doesn't think he'd be able to get one as it seems that one needs a degree to get a visa to work there. Presumably you can only go there to work under a skilled migrant worker visa although I am not familiar with the process. Nonetheless, I try to look at this as something positive in a sense that at least he is looking to the future.

I also asked the university what happens if he doesn't respond to their messages. They told me they'd keep trying through various channels and if they still have no luck with that, they'll attempt a wellbeing check at his registered address. I am not really sure what happens after that but I am hoping he will respond to them although I am not too convinced that he will.

I am still completely lost as to how we ourselves can keep contact with him given that he doesn't respond and I am not sure when he will respond to be honest...

Thank you for asking 😊