An update to all who responded to my thread about dropping out of uni...

[yakamoza]

Firstly, I'd like to thank everyone who has given me advice on my thread about my son wanting to drop out of uni. And, of course, I am here again to give an update on that and ask for more advice on how to cope with what's happened since my last post.

Since my son wasn't responding to our texts or calls, we decided to reach out to his gf and she told us he's not been going to lectures at all and generally had no motivation to do anything. She told us that even when she suggests doing various things at the weekend, he isn't that enthusiastic about it and doesn't want to do anything. She then told us that they decided to split and therefore wouldn't be seeing as much of each other as before.

After we spoke to his gf, I was extremely concerned by what she told us as this was a completely misaligned with what he had been telling us before Christmas. He himself wasn't responding to my requests for calls or my texts, so last week my husband and I decided to drive up to his uni accommodation to see him. You probably will not believe it but a) his gf was in his room with him and b) out of embarrassment or something else, he refused to open the door and speak to us!

I had to call my sister and ask her husband to speak to him since my son always had a good relationship with him. In the end, he informed even him that he decided to quit uni and focus on YouTube. My BIL told him it wasn't acceptable to keep ignoring your parents and refuse to open the door and see them after they drove to see you for 2 hours and suggested that he calls and apologises. He did call in the end but rather than apologise told us that it was always our idea for him to go to uni rather than his and he doesn't want to pursue that anymore. At that point, my husband informed him that we would respect his decision but also would have to stop funding both his accommodation and living expenses and he'd have to work something out himself. He said fine and that's how that conversation ended.

I don't really know what I am here to ask or what I expect to hear. I know that we have likely gone badly wrong somewhere and failed as parents but I am still so heartbroken and sad about the level of deceipt that we have uncovered as my son was telling us throughout October, November, December and even January that he really understood how important it was for him to study and how he was spending all his time in the library. He asked us to help him buy a new laptop in November as his old one wasn't working well. We did buy one as we really thought he needed it to study.

I am now just completely shocked that he has essentially been lying to us for months and pretty much doing nothing while we have been funding his accommodation and living expenses and he has been incurring debt on his tuition fees while doing absolutely nothing as described by his girlfriend. I do realise that he may be suffering from depression and I did tell him that we can get help if he is depressed and that we would always be there for him too. He just ignored all that, and I am still really worried, concerned and at the same time disgusted by all the lies he's been telling us about studying while accepting our money for living expenses and accommodation and essentially wasting it all on nothing. I also discovered he took out the maintenance loan from the Student Loan Company despite the fact that we have been funding his groceries and rent. I have no idea where the money has been going and what he's been spending it on as he doesn't buy clothes, gadgets, go out or does anything else that could explain his expenses.

I know that I shouldn't be making this about how I feel and that I should be working out how I can help him but I just can't stop thinking about his deception and wondering where I went wrong as a parent while also worrying about his future. I also can't stop feeling deceived and disgusted with the whole situation and can't stop blaming myself for doing an abysmal job as a parent as we evidently went very wrong somewhere... I don't really know where and how to find a way forward from this and what to do, so I am hoping to hear some advice from other parents.

The YouTube aspirations are worrying as he is very unlikely to make a career out of making videos. The market is flooded already.

@FoxtonFoxton We have tried explaining that to him. Unfortunately he isn't listening. My BIL even told him that he knows someone who actually made a successful career on YT but that person basically started doing it as a hobby. Apparently he was a passionate gamer who was really great at it and he just started making videos about the games he was playing as a hobby rather than hoping to make money out of it. It just so happened that he got quite a following doing that but it took years to get to where he is today.

My son doesn't even know what he is good at. When we ask him what it is he wants to do on YT, his reply is "to talk about current issues in society". I am sorry to say this but I am not even sure he knows what those issues are given that he doesn't really get out much. The other thing is it sounds too generic. I know there is "society" but to there are also different layers in society. When I ask him even general questions about whether he wants to appeal to the 18 year olds and younger teenagers with his content, his peers or older people, he has no answers. He doesn't know who would be interested in the type of content he is thinking about etc, etc. Just basically totally clueless about the realities of YT and the number of content creators out there that nobody is interested in.

Are you guarantors for his accommodation? If so you are likely to still be funding him anyway as you will liable for his rent and it sounds like he won’t be able to cover it.

@ShaunaSadeki yes, we are. And indeed maybe we may have to continue doing that although his current agreement runs out at the end of the month and I don't know whether they would hold us to the guarantor commitment beyond that.

@yakamoza The most successful you tubers are those that started a very long time ago with an interest that they were passionate about.

A man lives on a farm in the middle of nowhere, and had a terrible rodent problem.

He began having videos on mouse traps.

He likes humane traps, and never uses poisons or glue traps- and now has almost 2 million subscribers.

It does sound like your son is still with his girlfriend and is just coasting along, possibly depressed.

It must be extremely worrying.

Could the girlfriend be pregnant ?? {not answering the door to you??}

We had exactly this situation, although without the partner and not so far away.

He needs to know you are not funding accommodation going forward, so needs to come home.
When home he needs to get a job, anything. Our DC struggled to find anything to start with so we took 20% of their UC as board and lodging. (When working we also took 20% of wages. It was all saved and given towards a deposit on a flat).
If he wants to do the YouTube thing, that’s fine as long as he’s also working.
When he starts earning better money, he will have to start paying his student loan from Year 1 and whatever he was given in Year 2.

Our DC eventually got an admin job which led in a roundabout way to becoming a Business Analyst. They are on very good money 7 years later!
Don’t lose hope x

Could the girlfriend be pregnant ?? {not answering the door to you??}

@oakleaffy Not sure to be honest. Theoretically anything's possible although I hope that's not the case because we have talked about his responsibilities in that area many times. Well, I didn't but I asked my husband to. My son also said on many occasions he didn't think he should even be thinking about children until he is in his 30s although I do appreciate that you can say one thing and then do another. Not to mention that in this particular area things can just happen!

My DD is also in her second year at university and I'm going against the opinions of other posters, because I'd be absolutely fuming if she behaved like your DS. He's been taking the piss wasting your money for months and then refusing to speak to you after you drove for two hours to see him in person- how dare he treat you so disrespectfully.

We've spoken extensively with DD about how to handle the situation if she's not happy at university. She's currently having counseling for anxiety because she got very stressed last semester, and if she said that she didn't want to stay at uni, we'd figure it out. Your DS needs to recognize that he's an adult now and adults don't refuse to communicate while letting their parents pay for everything.

Of course he can come home, but he needs to sort this mess out with the university and work out what he's going to do next.

He seems very childish. He wouldn’t open the door to you- was he scared of a telling off? 😂 what’s his girlfriend like? I think you are playing it pretty well, letting him know you’ll support him in whatever he does but also not supporting him to do nothing. Don’t pay the rent, stop funding his living allowances. He’ll have to get a job and make some decisions about what he needs to do. And that’s grow up tbh. We’d all love to be YouTube stars doing a video a week making millions but it’s very unlikely.

My DD is also in her second year at university and I'm going against the opinions of other posters, because I'd be absolutely fuming if she behaved like your DS. He's been taking the piss wasting your money for months and then refusing to speak to you after you drove for two hours to see him in person- how dare he treat you so disrespectfully.

@BruFord I am so confused and unsure as to whether we've done the right thing. I am kind of drifting between the thought that we need to be supportive and the thought that he is an adult who needs to take responsibility. He was late to start uni after A-levels as he delayed taking his A-levels due to covid disruptions with school. So he is basically nearly 23 now, so for all intents and purposes a young adult. I am his mother and want to be supportive and protective and at the same time I keep asking myself when this should stop and how will I know when I've gone too far with that as that can also do more harm than good. I wasn't even comfortable about starting a discussion about stopping funding but after talking to my son, my BIL concluded that he is just being lazy and doesn't want to do anything while at the same time complaining that the parents are interfering too much in his life and he just wants independence. So BIL said we need to give him the independence he so desires as he can't say he wants to be independent while his parents are funding his not doing anything.

I haven't a clue what my son meant by parental interfering as we don't really call on a daily basis or go to see him all the time. We did usually come up maybe a couple of times a month and sometimes not even that but it was always by prior agreement with him and we didn't really interrogate him about anything he was doing when we came up. We just went for dinner, spent some time together and went back home. That was all. Beyond that, he was really left to his own devices.

So I don't really know how what to do that would be a sensible balance between being supportive and giving him the full taste of independence so to speak.

He may not neccessarily be depressed, but lacking direction. Adhd may also be a possibility. I believe I have adhd and as mentioned above, did something similar.

He seems very childish. He wouldn’t open the door to you- was he scared of a telling off? 😂 what’s his girlfriend like?

@AluckyEllie The girlfriend seems much more mature to be honest. When we spoke to her, she seemed polite, articulate and pretty sensible. Her mum is a single mother, so to be honest I don't think she gets quite as much (if anything) in terms of financial support and so she seems much more grown up and responsible so to speak. I think she also recognises the responsibilities behind giving up uni as she told us she tried to speak to him about taking leave of absence rather than dropping out. She even got the forms from the university site for him to fill in but says he is just procrastinating and not doing anything about it.

It sounds like he's quite depressed, but I also think that enabling him to drop out of life by funding him is not going to help with that.

I would make it clear that if he's decided Uni is not for him, you are on his side to help him make a sensible plan for the future, including seeking mental health support if needed.

Being a YouTuber CAN be a career, but it's something that has to be done alongside a day job until it makes a profit. It also requires talent and effort. Is he very funny? Does he have interesting opinions on things which he is able to express in an engaging and articulate way? Does he have a particular "niche" which people will be interested in; a skill that he can teach via the videos for example? Does he have the tech and artistic skill needed to make professional looking videos? I have seen a lot of young people saying they are going to make YouTube videos for a career without any of the above attributes, apparently thinking they can just film themselves messing about with their friends and make millions.

He probably will manage to stay at uni this year and just not be able to start yr3 in September. They’ve had their tuition fees. They will have him down for an August resit for his exam.
Some only monitor tutorial attendance and there’s lots of leeway.
Check what you are in hook for rent guarantor wise. If you can I’d not pay anymore. Don’t give him maintenance money or pay phone etc.
If he’s claimed loan he’ll have £4700 to live on.
I’d definitely alert uni to fact he’s saying he’s dropped out and needs a welfare check.
I’d be clear with him in writing that you love and support him. Uni isn’t the be all and end all it’s up to him what he does. Say he’s welcome home if he wants.
You were funding him while he studies. I wouldn’t carry on funding now he’s not.

He worked in Hospitality for a couple of years then joined the Police.

You've done your best OP.

He's an adult and you can't make him speak to you.

You've offered him a home and he doesn't want it - fine, his choice.

So, now it's time for some "tough love" and to show him that he's an adult and his ungrateful, disrespectful, entitled behaviour has consequences. He needs to learn that life isn't a free ride.
Cut off his funding, including his 'phone and that should motivate him to get a job.
And don't let him play the "Mental Health" card.

Can I just say you are not bad parents.

He is going through something and needs to 'find' himself.
Moving out and living on your own at uni is SO hard.

I absolutely crumbled and collapsed into a world of drink (didn't like drugs luckily) and I lived a weird nocturnal life. Never went to any lectures. Spent loads of money I didn't have. Leeched off my parents. Drink driving and smashed my car up (luckily didn't get caught and only damaged my own car and nothing and no one else) - my parents paid to fix my car and didn't judge me and that made me feel 10 times worse. They were always just quietly there in the background - I always kept them at arms length. They travelled up to see me I did a quick lunch with them, avoided most conversation and then off I went again.

I quit uni, moved out of halls and found a house share and got a crappy job and some benefits to cover the rent etc. Parents still helped me out, never said to move home but said my room was always made up for me. Just quietly there in the background.

Eventually I went to see them, broke down about how shit everything was and they held me, loved me, helped me figure out a bit of a 'baby steps' plan.

I now have a fantastic job, marriage, 2 young kids who are thriving. My parents are still here quietly supporting us.

Just telling you my story because your son sounds in a familiar lost place - just keep being there. Even if he doesn't reply or seem interested- just keep being there.

Keep sending the odd card, maybe a bit of pocket money, the extra text goodnight etc.

He sees it and feels it but he doesn't know what to do with it right now. Good luck OP.

I understand why you are frustrated OP but this sounds very claustrophobic. The debt is his problem not yours as it is in his name. How did he manage to get the maintenance loan without you having to provide evidence of income? He'd clearly only be getting the lowest amount as you appear to have no problem funding him. The house is potentially your problem as you are the guarantor. I'd try to put him fucking up and not speaking to you to one side and concentrate on how you can start dropping the rope financially whilst making it clear he always has a home to come back to. Stop using his girlfriend to get to him - that is never going to end well.

@yakamoza just to add I'm currently waiting for my ADHD diagnosis - ive already been diagnosed but not yet by the NHS so I'm waiting for formal diagnosis I guess you could say - but I do have it . It explains so much and also explains why uni wasn't the right path for me and was bound to end in tears. Not that this might be the case for your son but just a heads up.

Thanks GreatOliveTiger!

Any student can get min loan £4700 from SFE no need to provide parent incomes details.
He’s 23. It sounds like you have been very generous supporting him at uni well over required top up.
It sounds like he’s seeing your financial support and visiting him at uni a pressure so I’d back off. Let him know you are there if needed. Don’t try and contact his GF.

@yakamoza Given that he’s nearly 23, I think that you do need to give him his independence. As others have said, you can be in the background on the end of a phone if he needs you, but he needs to make his own decisions.

Sounds as if a BTEC in media production or a degree level apprenticeship would have suited him better than university and probably should have been discussed a few years ago but you are where you are and it’s not too late for either but he has to be interested in exploring his options. I’d stop worrying about the ‘deception’ - I imagine it’s not quite that simple. I doubt he’s feeling good or happy that he’s failed at university.

You are not a bad parent, he is an adult (even if very immature) and responsible for his own actions and decisions. You can't rely on anything he tells you so you need to check that you're not being going to be held responsible for his rent when the agreement ends (I would be worried that he extends the agreement even though he doesn't pay the rent).
I would also try very hard not to ask him about his plans for the future, he obviously doesn't have any so he's either going to avoid the question (and you) or lie. Keep in touch with texts, postcards etc but keep things light. Tell him what date he will have to leave his current accommodation and suggest he lets you know if he wants help to move his belongings anywhere (don't tell him where, it could be your home/storage/the girlfriend's room). If he comes up with any plans - including making a living from YT - bite your tongue and don't offer any thoughts or advice unless he directly asks. I know this is really worrying for you.

Suspect you need to immediately write to his landlord now and withdraw your agreement to be a guarantor past the end of is current lease. You must do this in writing; say you will not longer guarantee the rent past the end of his lease.

Is there any way he could switch courses and do something to do with production/editing? To help his youtube 'career'? At least he'd be doing something he enjoys and that gives him practical skills in an area that interests him....

@SlightlyJaded That might be a better fit for him, but he's going to have to organize it himself. He's legally been an adult for nearly five years and his parents can't make decisions for him.