Older relatives not understanding WFH...

[TickingAlongNicely]

I am self employed. I work from home. It can only be done at home, unless I lug massive bits of equipment away with me (I can't work from a hotel room for example).

My children are Secondary school age. They don't need looking after, just someone around really in school holidays.

Every school holiday from my parents...
What are you doing? (I'm working)
What are the children (homework, chilling, hanging out, resting. )
Why don't you come and stay for a few days (I'm WORKING)
What do you do all day at home (WORK)
Don't you want to spend time with the children (I do in the afternoon/evenings, I start work early...).

I'm pretty sure if I worked in an office I wouldn't get this barrage of questions!

I know, I know, but easier said than done. I'm not going to tell a friend they can't come in when they turn up at my door so I'll say, I'm busy but I've time for a quick coffee break. My phone will be ringing, emails and Teams binging away and they'd happily settle in for the afternoon. Take the hint people😫

Same here

They don't actually believe that people can be productive without being in an office

100% of my job is done on a computer

I could be living in Timbuktu and the output would still be the same

I think a lot of people who haven’t ever been employed in a modern office setting with lots of technology struggle to understand what “work” could be done by being glued to a laptop for 8 hours.

I find I’m much more efficient at home because I previously worked in an open plan environment where people chatted to me (learned to keep headphones in all the time), and I don’t have to help unblock the printer, explain the filing system for the umpteenth time, spent minutes walking to the next meeting room, get involved in arguments about food left in the fridge etc etc. I use those odd times of the day between meetings to put a load of laundry on, empty the dishwasher while the kettle is boiling, quickly browse MN.

we all know slackers are going to skive. In the office they spend ages taking coffee and smoking breaks, disappearing from their desk for hours, arriving late, leaving early etc. At home they have a multitude of other ways to not get their work done but let’s not kids ourself that the person with a mouse jiggler is suddenly going to be much more productive if in the office 40 hours a week.

Yep. I had my MIL turn up, I ignored the doorbell because I was giving a global presentation to around 50 people. She came round the back and started banging on the patio doors behind me and calling "woohoo". One of my colleagues had to stop me and say "erm... Duck, I think someone wants you".

Swiftly sent her packing and called her in the evening so say that I was on a call. She said "oh yes, I thought you were". Gah! I give up.

Oh I've just remembered the time FiL asked me in all seriousness if my job involved "just stapling papers together all day" and did I therefore have to bring my stapler home when WFH - what would work do if I lost the stapler???

I blame The Office (stapler in jelly) and countless other sitcoms and adverts where folk get upset about missing staplers. It has then become the only frame of reference regarding a modern office for people like FiL.

I have been asking advice about this in RL lately as my mum cannot get her head around it. I work long hours at home and one day per week in the City. I have kids and so have to really structure everything to the last minute and am often working post kids beds to catch up. My mum phones every day, on the way to the supermarket, or at the garden center bored, for no reason, but will stay on the phone for 30/40 mins with me saying I need to get on. I have to answer the phone as they are elderly and the one time I let it go, it will be an emergency. If on a meeting or head down, put DND on the phone and will message - is it urgent? and she won't reply, then I get worried and it is just she is bored or wanted to ask an inane question. She has lots of friends and is married, so it isnt she is lonely. She knows I work and knows I stuggle, but will not join the dots. Was the same when the kids were babies, she would show up to let me get on, then talk for hours. I just gave up. I feel AWFUL as she is a lovely mum and granny and I know she thinks I don't have time for her, but something has to give as I am in danger of losing my shit with her.

In a previous, office based, role, I actually had a colleague who was a bit like this as well. Constantly bad mouthed colleagues who were able to work from home. From "they're just sitting around watching This Morning" to "I bet she hasn't even bothered putting any makeup on".

Drove me mad, she was so bitter and jealous that her role couldn't be done remotely. Eventually I started saying "you know Janet, you too can apply for a WFH job" (please!!!!)

It was actually me who left first and now WFH! I don't watch This Morning, but I am makeup-less.

People keep saying it's because of people talking about their flexible work from home jobs so of course others get the wrong idea.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about having a WFH job so flexible that they can drop everything with zero warning multiple times a day/week. Even the most flexible jobs usually just mean you can plan to take time out during the day and make it up another time.

If Mum calls and asks to pop round for coffee at 11am on Tuesday, plenty of WFH people could make that work. They know what time they have available outside of work to make up the time later (eg "sorry, can we do another day instead as I have plans that day so can't make up the time"). They can give their colleagues a heads up that they'll be unavailable for a bit or are taking an early lunch etc. They can order their work tasks so they're not in the middle of something at that time.

And most importantly, they can make sure that they weren't already using the flexibility for something else that day/week. Maybe they do have a super flexible job, but if they already have a dentist appointment booked that afternoon that they're working late to make up for, they can't also have Mum turning up announced.

It's really not hard to understand that even flexible jobs are still flexible within the context of work, not free for alls you can interrupt without any hassle.

Let me know if you get useful answers! My friend is in a similar position and is on the verge of falling out with her mother. She is beginning to feel like it is implicit criticism whenever they meet.

> I tend to be either in back-to-back teams meetings, or head down writing reports and meeting deadlines.

I think that is the case with most people posting here

As an aside, has anyone lese noticed that over the past 5-6 years the number of utterly unnecessary Teams/Zoom meetings, and the number of utterly unnecessary people 'attending' them has risen enormously?

Is this just digital presenteeism?

You dropped your /s

Or you're a spiteful troll

They must all be extraordinarily dense. I’m in my sixties and run Zoom and Teams courses from home.

They'll still be dead after you finish your meeting

Hope you had big pockets

@JandamiHash that is exactly what my DH said. ha ha. I laughed and he was sitting there straight faced.

The university of Lancaster did a huge (12,000 people in first cohort, 20,000+ in second) study during lockdown, and found that in almost every case (95% confidence) the people who wanted everyone back in the office, or who missed the 'social' aspect of going in to work, or who call WFH 'not real work' are the very same micromanaging dead wood that all the people who actually get things done despise working with

And without the constant interruptions from the sort of people who want everyone back in the office

Those of us not lacking in social awareness, emotional intelligence and critical thinking knew who you were referring to :)

Makes me chuckle as well at the cluelessness of that comment. When my husband starting WFH (he is a contractor on a day rate) the company got about 4-5 hours a day more from him than when he went into the office and he wasn't commuting so spent that time working. A bargain for them as it was a day rate rather than an hourly rate.

You are a kind person!

I use the time I've clawed back from my commute for my own enjoyment, though having wfh for nearly 10 years it's not a novelty anymore.

OP, you are doing too much.
A long call every evdning and she is livjng with two people?
Ridiculous.
You need to mind yourself.
You sound as if you could become burnt out.
Compose a text of voice mail with a list of what you do and how busy you are with work, house, children etc., Keep sending it to your mother on a daily basis for a couple of weeks.

My friend did this to her newly retired mother whom suddenly expected her calls to be answered immediately and my friend was loosing her mind.

Her mother had ALWAYS worked full-time which really irritated her as her career always came first.
But now she expected her daughter to be available.
It took a big falling out between them for boundaries to be firmly put in place.

The latter. I actually think that they're drunk a lot of the time. They post utter rubbish on a daily basis.

I agree, in fact I wish MN would do something about it. She posted some absolute trite on a thread a while ago which really upset the OP. I responded to OP to say ignore, the advice is from the dark ages 1950's housewife era and never aligns with any responses anyone else has made. I was not rude, just stated pretty much that and my comment was deleted so I am guessing it was reported. Whilst we all have very differing opinions to be heard this particular poster seems to be deliberately inflammatory. What I can't work out if they are true thoughts or a troll.

My sister, who works random shifts as a delivery driver and also is a private chauffeur for a local businessman, so she should understand that work is a thing, might not mean sitting in an office, people have shifts and might finish late etc.

Rings me at all hours, particularly on a Friday or Saturday, wittering on about absolute shite (because she is either on the way to somewhere, bored, or sat in a car, bored), without ever taking a second to ask if I am busy, working, doing something important to me.

Every time I tell her 'I am working, I need to go' she continues to witter, and then 'oh but it's Friday night...' or 'oh but it's Saturday!'..

I have worked every Friday and Saturday, and my shifts are 2pm to 10pm and have been for the better part of FOUR BLOODY YEARS!

She turns up without asking, and then winds up the dogs, then complains that the dogs are silly, asks if I can take a break (I don't really have breaks, I'm not an employee so there is no statutory break every however many hours. I just have to ensure I answer questions within the 1 hour turnaround time). Starts asking me things when she can SEE for herself that I am answering someones question...

Back when we had to take phone calls or do zooms, she would absolutely interrupt or even interject. She tried to offer a client advice by talking over me once. Another time I was in a zoom with some of the big bosses from insertmultinationalpetfoodcohere and she's in the fucking background WAVING 'hello!' like this is bloody Omegle (my partner hauled her out of the room by her arm both times).

She does not truly believe what I do is really a job, nor does it occur that I might need to concentrate on it. I think thats the real issue.

She also seems to think I am here to do her admin, anything tech related and that this is more important than my own work!