To not want my baby left alone with FIL

[LottieB1994]

I’m at the end of my tether with my FIL and want to know AIBU. I have a 4 month old and the reasons I have are:

• He is extremely full on with all 3 of his grandchildren, wanting to constantly play, hold etc to a level that isn’t normal.
• He has never shown any interest in me as a person, never asks me any q’s about myself, knows hardly anything about me due to this. He only talks about himself in conversation with everyone.
• When I was pregnant he decided he was coming for a week when I gave birth, then another week 2 weeks later (this never happened as DH stepped in) without caring if I felt comfortable with this - he stated he was coming on my due date to stay nearby, which I was extremely uncomfortable with as I knew the baby was unlikely to even arrive then and he’d be there waiting for me to go into labour. When I saw him while pregnant he touched my belly in a way that also made me feel really uncomfortable like he wanted the baby out asap so he could have him.
• With the other grandchildren, he feeds them an absolutely WILD amount of sugar all day every day. The 2 year old GD he feeds literal crap, offering milky ways, bars of chocolate, cakes, eclairs, fizzy drinks te list goes on and on. This is fine, however, with our DS he is already saying he can’t wait to give him these same foods without even asking if this is ok.
• In same vein he is saying that 4 month old needs weaning now, he’s hungry, making “mummy isn’t feeding you enough” comments to him when we are at dinner table with him. I am BF and don’t feel he likes this. Keeps saying “next time you come you’ll be having farleys rusks/lollipops/chocolate/crisps” - this makes me feel extremely anxious as I want to wean him onto non sweet foods first and don’t want him having this type of food at just 9 months old which is when we will next be staying.
• He also has been sitting DS in front of the 2 year olds iPad which she is obsessed with - going “watch the pad! Do you want to watch some TV?” While DH and I don’t want him having screen time.
• while holding him he starts crying and he actively avoids giving him to me, I think it annoys him that he is crying and he tries to either walk off holding him or give him to SIL. This makes me angry - he is obsessed with trying to settle him himself
• He acts slightly annoyed when baby needs to nap during the day and I take him off to nap, saying eg “he had a 2 hour nap this morning isn’t he done for today?”
• He keeps undermining me, I keep saying baby is teething (as he is - HV told me) and he keeps saying “he’s chewing his fists he’s hungry” and “I don’t think hes teething at his age” to SIL in front of me, though I keep reiterating he is.
• He has been showering the other 10 year old grandson which I think is really weird and uncomfortable, a level of involvement that is far too intense and I don’t want my son being treated like this. With the 2 year old he is literally like a kid in a candy shop all day trying to be the centre of attention with her, shouting and constantly trying to clutch onto her.
• Hes been asking to look after my DS alone for upcoming weddings we have, and acted annoyed that I said I don’t want to leave him yet (I am actually leaving him with my mum as I do not trust him or want him alone with my son)
• He has also been ramming and holding dummy into my sons mouth when he cries, which makes me feel upset and I have now stopped him doing this by saying we’re only using dummy for nap time.

All of this honestly is making my skin crawl and I really don’t want my DS having much more to do with him as I feel like he is extremely strange and also has zero respect for me as his mother and us as parents, assuming he will be doing these unhealthy things with our son. I have said to DH I don’t want him looking after our baby alone until he is much older.

AIBU to feel like this?

To respond to some of these:

My SIL is fully complicit in the sugar and the screen time for her kids (beyond bizarre!) which DH says makes it more awkward, saying in front of everyone in living room that DS doesn’t have screen time etc and he thinks because FIL has seen the other two growing up in this way he thinks it’s normal that we will be following suit. I think this is a generous view to take of him…

DH says we’ll tackle it next time we come in August when he’s weaned, I do think it should be nipped in the bud now or he will assume we’re fine with his approach.

SIL knew about showering of her son I think which means she was also bizarrely fine with it - I am going to be watching next time he goes to shower if FIL is involved again and for how long.

very difficult as DH doesn’t want to cut off dad and won’t accept him severely limiting contact at the moment but I think I will just start voicing my opinions loudly and not allowing time alone with my DS - if it leads to a falling out with FIL so be it..

Your response is correct and I fully agree, however don't just voice, actively put a stop to whatever it is he's wanting to do, if you don't agree with it.

Every single time.

If there's a fall out, your DH will have to step in and tell FIL to back off.

There was a thread recently, where many posters recounted instances of abuse in their childhoods, often signalled by weird, strange, creepy behaviour by adults which wasn't called out. Children placed in vulnerable situations, and adults who should be protecting them, complicitly turning a blind eye. This man's behaviour is not just weird but it has red flags all over it. OP, someone needs to step up/step in and protect the children in your family. Your skin is crawling for a reason.

Edited to add link to the thread.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5269293-dad-hanging-round-outside-bathroom?page=15&reply=142036034

We had a similar situation with MIL, luckily she lives abroad. DH is sometimes blind to her weird behaviour. I have been on every visit to supervise and provide a rational viewpoint, and she is never left alone with DS (though one time she basically kidnapped him when we were walking in the high street of her local town, when he was about 3). She will never have unsupervised contact. Ever. I know what she did to DH as a child. She's more than a few sandwiches short of a picnic that one.

If it was me and I know its hard, Id be saying to DH “no we tackle it now and if you won’t then I will and you won’t like it” Lay dosn the lines snd consequences BEFORE your next visit!

You and your husband need to sit down sometime and have a rational conversation about where the hard lines are, and what you individually are willing to adjust your approaches on during family visits.

Realistically, your normal approach at home won’t be totally rigidly replicated when you’re with others and there is always some adjustment. So agree together where that will be and what is a hard line for you as parents.

As an example, Your views on sugar and screen time sound like they are at one end of the range that covers most parents outlooks. You might agree together that at family get togethers you’re willing to adjust that approach. Same as a lot of parents have different standards for when their children are at parties vs at home.

eg. For us, chocolate biscuits are a grandparents house thing and we don’t have them at home. Haribo is allowed at parties but not at home. Pushing people around is never ok regardless of where you are.

Children can (and need to) learn that different rules apply sometimes in different places.

If you do return in August You and DH have to agree that you quietly take steps to limit FILs behaviour. If you feel DH is not fully on board, stay home.

Up to your SIL if she's ok with the amount of sugary snacks and screen time for a 10 year old, but you'd prefer not to have this forced on your tiny DS by FIL.

If you do go. Plan ahead, Bring DS's own food to avoid the food issues, take little books or toys instead of screen time. Ensure you are both clear on the level of supervision you both are happy with eg DS sleeps in your room with you, etc... Have an exit plan just in case relatives kick off.

YANBU. Your mums instincts should always be listened to and you are going about it the right way to protect your DS.

I feel sorry for the 10 year old child, isn't it the case where majority of abusers are relatives of the child?! I'm glad you're keeping an eye out for him as he may not feel comfortable in saying he doesn't want his grandfather standing there in the bathroom while he showers.

Stick to your guns... I would feel the same way as you!

OP does your DH acknowledge the lack of regard and respect that FIL shows you? If he's on board with everything, then it needs to be him stepping in every time his own father crosses one of these lines. You shouldn't have to be voicing your opinions loudly if they are not just your opinions, but his as well.

I understand that your DH wants to put off dealing with it, but your FIL isn't going to sit and reflect on what you want and suddenly not do these things. You know in advance what he will do, and you know that once your son is weaned what he will do with that. You risk a big blowup and/or an awful atmosphere, neither of which are fair on you, when it's his dad who is the problem.

Is it possible that if you visit, that you don't visit when SIL is there with her kids? You are right that it will make it even more difficult with the ipad, sweets and farleys floating around.

In what world is this standard grandparent behaviour??? I would have to disagree.

Your instinct alone is reason enough to prevent this, and you must as your child’s advocate. No need to justify why.

All very annoying And weird

However, i have found that most elderly people in my family love to FEED utter SHIT to my kid

My parents. My parents in law, elderly aunts, GGrandparents

They seem to think they must buy sweets for a child when they seem them, like it's the law

Drives me mad

My son is autistic and does need a bit of help in the shower. He is 12. My in-laws have expressed that they feel uncomfortable with this, so my DS does not stay at their house overnight at the moment. Previously they had him to stay once a week. I'm desperately trying to get DS to be more independent in this area so that he can take part in school trips/sleep overs etc. it's not normal for an adult that isn't the child's parent to be comfortable showering older children.

I was abused as a child, so when I was reading your post, I was reminding myself not to project even though many of the behaviours rang alarm bells with me, and then I got to the part about showering - FUCK THAT. Do not let this man ever be alone with your child.

I've read the whole thread and your updates and I think there's two separate issues.

The overstepping in terms of your wishes as parents and secondly, the behaviour you describe as predatory.

Your DH said he was passing him a towel. He wasn't showering with or showering the 10 year old. He was passing him a towel. The fact your DH has more insight into the events, and as a PP has said, what does the 10 year old make of it? My DD is 10 and would lock the door for her own privacy if she wanted to. The fact your nephew didn't shows that perhaps nudity (or assistance in the form of being passed a towel) would be fine and is normal within that family unit.

As to the other allegations, the sweets and the screen time, I think you need to chill. Assert your boundaries and be clear there will be no sweets and no screen time (although personally I think that's a bit over the top depending on the content) but it sounds like enthusiastic grandparent behaviour.

It sounds like you don't like the family at all and are looking for anything you can find to get the Mumsnet hoardes in agreement with you. Only you genuinely know whether your spider senses are tingling genuinely about predatory behaviour or whether this is you being unhappy.

As hard as it would be I would definitely cut ties. I’d tell my DH to see his weird dad alone!

Nope - trust your gut. Furthermore it's upsetting and unsettling for you which is unacceptable.

From my safeguarding training, the majority of sexual abuse (some 80-85%) is carried out by someone known to the family (e.g. friend) or worse still a family member. This may sound dramatic but better to be safe than sorry...

This absolutely this.
Professionally I have been safeguarding for a thirty years and my alarm bells rang very loudly reading this. It read like he is grooming the whole family to get this kind of access to the children under everyone’s noses. Clever, effective and cunning. If your SIL won’t stand up it makes it more difficult for you but you need to. For your child and the 10yr old too.
Be strong, firm and take action. Sending love and courage to you and your DH.

Don’t be passive with this OP, you going to look like the bad guy, but stand up to FIL, every time!! No way would someone be taking over my baby's weaning and giving them screen time at a v v young age etc. How disrespectful to you as a parent. He should be doing learning play with your DS, if anything, not screen time! You need to get DH on side, and do not leave DS alone with FIL, listen to your gut.

Trust your instincts here.

I am astounded by the amount of people brushing off the grandfather being in the bathroom with a 10 year old boy while he's showering! WTF?!
I was raised in a safe, happy, loving home in the 70s. This would absolutely never have happened in my family.
As soon as I was independent enough to bathe or shower on my own, I was afforded privacy to do so!
Aside from his other weird behaviours, this has to be the most concerning.
I'd be letting the boys parents know as a soon as possible, he is massively overstepping boundaries with their child and if anyone even thinks this is normal behaviour, then frankly, they are as bad as him!

This sounds like you're resentful that your FIL.isnt interested in you so you want to keep him away from your baby.

you've twisted him giving his grandson a towel into a potential sexual molestation of a child which is sick.

You admit that what he does with his other GC is in line with what their parents do anyway and the only person who has a problem with his behaviour is you, who he doesn't seem to like much.

I can see what you're doing here and it's very ugly. You'll probably get away with it but it should always bother you if you have any moral compass at all.

Some people won't like you. Get over it.

It's not brushing it off but the fact the OP states he's "been showering" him, implies he's actually washing him and it's happened more than once. Then she later posts it was one time, her husband said he just passed him a towel but she could hear them talking. That's quite a difference in my eyes.

Actually most things OP says seem to be exaggerated to me. A 4 month old given "screen time" when actually her 2 year old already has an iPad, which OP doesn't seem to mind. Touching her stomach as though he's trying to get the baby out. Constantly wanting to play with his grandchildren? How terrible.

I'm not doubting he's probably quite overbearing, possibly narcissistic and OP should lay down some rules, but it does strike me that she doesn't like her husband's family in the slightest and everything they do is going to rub her up the wrong way.

The OP said that he went.in to give him a towel but by HER ESTIMATION ONLY he took too long and said too many words.

His behaviour while OP was pregnant and the breastfeeding comments are both massive red flags. What sort of man (other than the baby's father) touches a pregnant woman's belly without permission? What sort of man comments to a breastfeeding mum that she isn't feeding her baby enough and that he can't wait to give a 4 month old baby junk food?

The parents of the other children are fine with huge amounts of sugar/junk food but OP isn't and she has every right to say no to this and to keep her distance.