If you’re married to a surgeon please tell me if you think I’m being unfair?

[Likao]

I am 40 and we have 1 dc age 2. I do everything for dd in terms of nursery runs, packing bags, ensuring dd has new shoes that fit, taking her to appointments etc. Any admin you can think of, I do.

i also work full time from home, so I have flexibility which is why I do nursery etc. At weekends DP will take dd out from 10ish to 4pm ish on a Saturday or Sunday so I can have a break. I don’t think this is ok or enough and I’m starting to get really pissed off that everything is left to me.

if I ask DP to do a specific task like put a wash on or pick up some food then he will. But what infuriates me is there is NEVER a sense of urgency from him to be home at a reasonable time and he would absolutely never ensure he was there to collect dd from nursery for example. I have to cut my data short often to collect her if unwell but he literally does not think he can do this because he can’t just leave patients (in his words). Obviously I know that there is a difference with his job but I am absolutely at the end of my tether tonight and very upset he’s been at work since 6am and not even asked how I’ve got on with dd and her bedtime (she’s very difficult at the moment). It’s making me very unhappy and feel very alone. It’s caused loads of arguments the last few weeks as I feel totally put upon. I don’t feel I have an equal relationship and the only answer I get back is that his job means he can’t do more. I’m sick of it all, should I expect more, is it fair?

I am a consultant Anaesthetist so spend all day working with surgeons- both Residents and Consultants.

Whilst this description may have fitted some of them when I started decades ago, I am blessed to work with some really delightful surgeons, none of whom would meet your description thankfully.

What I do know is that we all have to be in early to prep the patients, and we have to stay until the list is finished, and then go and check on our patients afterwards, and make sure they are all ok/ talk about how things went.

i would never make plans to collect my children on aTheatre day, as it would never happen, as the lists always run late. We have a nanny, and her 12 hours have to fit in around my husbands work, as even then my days are too long for her hours.

Thankfully as a Consultant I am not in every day (although that is partly as our theatre days are long ones) so we don’t need a nanny every day. And my husband helps out a lot (he also has a busy job)

i also know that when I do get home after a 12-15 hour day (often without a break) I am truly shattered, and laundry etc takes a back seat. Food is batch cooked so I don’t have to prep after a long day.

I had my children when I was a consultant, there is no way I could have managed with the shifts I worked as a junior Dr/ plus post grad exams etc.

The surgeons seem to be under much more pressure than the Anaesthetists too- we let our residents go home after their shift has finished but the surgical residents are usually expected to stay until the end of the list (as are both sets of Consultants obviously)

I would imagine that his is a high pressure job and not very flexible. It's nice that he has a weekend day with little one to give you a break. If you're both working and earning decent money, can you employ outside help? Cleaner or childminder?

It sounds ridiculous to me. I wouldn’t want a relationship that was so one sided, with someone so obsessed with their job that it was to the detriment of their wife and child. Sure. The money will be good in the future. But this is the here and now. Life is now, not the future. If you’re unhappy, you need to change things. I’d be looking for a more equal partner personally.

I would LOVE to have a day childfree to myself every week!

What can you outsource to help you day to day, if you're finding things a struggle as they are?

Depending on the setting surgeons may be expected to see everyone they are about to operate on and personally re-consent, check if they have any questions etc prior to 8am.
My friends have experienced problems in terms of patient flow issues- beds in recovery, beds to move patients to ward, available porters, available ODPs etc to get everything turned over so even though their list technically should be able to be completed in working hours it never is, and the managers certainly won't see them cancelling the last patient of the day every day! Sometimes it's obvious & taking someone in for a 4 hour op at 2.30pm means everyone is going to be late but no one is going to let them knock theatre on the head at that time and send the poor patient who's fasted and waited home.

6 hours a week to yourself is loads! Does he get that?

I think YABU sorry. If you're finding your current setup stressful can one of you go part time? Hire a cleaner?

DH and I are both doctors and there have been stages in both our careers where one of us has had to focus on work and the other picks up more of the non-work responsibilities. It's not a field in which professional advancement comes without a lot of hard work and sacrifice. Being out the house 6am to 10pm isn't unusual in some specialities and at some stages, and there have been times both DH and I have basically lived in hospitals. It's not uncommon for doctors to have to live and work long distances away from their families for periods of training, or for locum work, or for a fixed term contract to develop an element of a CV.

It sounds like part of the issue isn't so much the amount of work he does but that you don't feel valued for the amount of work you do. Parity of esteem is important, and the work you do to keep the family afloat on top of your own career does matter as much as the work he does. Would it help if he showed more recognition of what you do and if you felt more supported to develop your own career too? It might also help to outsource some things - eg laundry, cleaning, meal planning/prep.

Thanks for the posts. I’m struggling a bit tonight and feeling pretty down but will respond tomorrow. Thank you.

I'm an NHS Consultant, a critical care consultant, and I'm married to another NHS Consultant who also works in a life-or-death speciality, albeit not surgery. We both work full time with a heavy on call commitment.

Our marriage and all home commitments are a partnership and we share them equally. We're busy and our job is a significant commitment but we enjoy ample time together outside of work, keep an organised balanced life using a Google calendar, and manage to pursue personal hobbies.

His non-commitment outside of work more likely reflective of a personality type that to do with his job.

@BlanketLanyard is this a joke? 6 hours a week? It’s not loads.

I agree that outsourcing most cleaning etc. could be good. It might give you more time to go on adventures with your child when you are not working.
You are lucky to have six hours to yourself on the weekend.

I suggest..
Asking DH to do bedtimes once or twice on the weekend.
Prioritising more intimate time with your DH so you keep listening to each other. You might walk on the beach, see a film etc. Employ a baby sitter if need be.

Realistically, you will not have more time from DH if you separate so it's in your best interests to try and tweek what you have to be more satisfying. Do you need to cut down your working hours?
If you hate your husband then that is different.

How many hours does he get to himself, not working or looking after your child?

I’m married to a surgeon. I’m a sahm though. Regardless he does quite a lot when he’s home. He spends lots of time with the kids when he can and generally picks up the ball when I’m dropping it. We split bedtimes 50/50 if he’s not on call.

We have had our fair share of times when the balance has felt unfair but we’ve discussed and recalibrated. I probably do the vast majority of the mental load but he acknowledges this.

I’m sorry you’re having a tough time. I think open and honest communication is all you can really do.
And yes he can be a bit arrogant sometimes but I just tell him to stop being such a dick.

My Father was a heart surgeon and if anything did more of the parenting than my mother who was a teacher!
I think there are 2 things that perhaps were different though.
Firstly this was many years ago and the NHS has changed massively in regard to workload & expectations.
Secondly my mother was having an affair so used her job (alleged meetings & parents evenings as a cover)
I have a friend that was married to an orthopaedic surgeon, she became very lonely in a beautiful house but with 2 young children and no friends nearby. He was a brilliant surgeon but seemed to lack that final strand of empathy to see anything outside his job.
I wish you all the best in resolving your issues but it won't be easy.

@Likao Are you counting the hour+ you've just spent on MN?

I think the problem is for a lot of us 6 hours off on a weekend sounds amazing.

My ex wasn't a surgeon but regularly he just had to work because if he didn't people could die. I think that definitely went to his head he was saving lives and such an important person. Childcare, housework and my job was nothing in comparison. And to an extent that was true but when in the trenches it built resentment in me. I have a disabled son and having to stop work to care for him was the nail in the coffin for me I just couldn't take it anymore. I think had I had 6 hours off and a cleaner I would have stuck it out.

I still don't get much time off because my disabled child is from a previous relationship but ex has his child overnight every weekend and often takes my older son as he was effectively his dad for years and he loves him. I'm much happier, I still do everything but I get more time off. We even meet up and parent together on outings or he comes for dinner in the week sometimes to spend time with the kids. I think we actually get the same amount of quality time together now as we did when in a relationship!

I don't think you can have a job where you are responsible for people's lives like that without a streak in your personality that feels like selfish arrogance to the default parent.

Could you afford home help? A long time ago I was a nanny and worked for a consultant and surgeon couple. They needed a nanny because both had to prioritise their job. Nannies can do kids washing and if you ask at interview for a nanny housekeeper some will cook a meal for parents or do family washing and cleaning. It will make a massive difference to you

So you both work full-time, he has a commute and you have the school run.

By default you do more childcare because he works later / commute but you get pretty much a full day to yourself every weekend. The other day I assume is family time.

Does he ever get any time that just his?

I do agree once he's home it should be 50/50 and he's clearly intelligent so should be able to to work out when a wash needs putting on, how to cook dinner, how to clean up.

So I don't think you should be expecting him to cut his hours or come home on time (my kid has been that awkward one that's made the surgeon work late / take a phone call in the middle of the night) but when he's home he should do more. However you get a lot more time to yourself than him, so maybe that's where you compromise....

I think you're being a dick.

Sounds like his personality more than the job.

OP, I feel your pain. I’m married to a consultant and there have been times when the kids were younger when I’ve felt absolutely desperate. It’s really not easy. But what helped me is the kids getting older and more reasonable, plus seeing that there are loads of other jobs out there just as demanding but way less well paid. At least financially we’re good.

It’s a crap job which means family can’t be the focus. Both our kids would no way go into healthcare as a result.

It will get better I promise, we operate as a family of three quite happily, with the fourth member an optional extra! I wouldn’t want to be him. They miss too much, and I honestly don’t know how two consultants do it. Not without a nanny anyway.

It is unreasonable of him to expect a woman of your age to do all this. Of course it is unfair. He should realise that you are not 20 and offer support. As a doctor, surely he must realise the difficulty you are facing? It is extremely selfish of him, surgeon or not.

6 hours a week with no kids is significantly more than a lot of people get - even for parents with ‘normal jobs’, it’s common for people now to work opposing days/shifts to cut down on childcare. Until my kids started school I had zero hours per week to myself, and I don’t think that’s particularly uncommon.

Obviously if you spend that six hours catching up on laundry and housework, it’s not a break - but if it’s time that’s genuinely your own, then I think you’re not doing too badly.

@jamontoast2 great reply! 👏

Have to say I was pleasantly surprised that he does do the 1 session on the weekend. I don't see any male doctors that I know who would do that. They come first. And their wives are generally miserable but the money keeps them there. No judgment from me about that

I think you are unreasonable. VERY.

I could be wrong, because I have no medical training. My cousin is a paramedic, and she is very much expected to take jobs until the end of her shift, if she is the nearest/freest. Sometimes if she is like a couple of minutes to the end of the shift, she can hide, but 15/20/30 mins before, just no.

If a call comes in that looks to be a long one, she can't say "I'm not doing that job because it will take more than 20 mins". She's expected to go, and if she's taken a patient that needs work to stabilise them, or she goes to a hospital that has a wait before they can take the patient in A+E, she waits. Might be a minute after her shift ends, or an hour. Doesn't matter. Until the job is clear, she works.

The bottom line, I guess, with your husband, is the same. Up until his shift ends, he takes work. If that means he's finishing an op until way after his shift ends, so be it. If an accident victim comes in an hour before his shift ends, needing a 4 hour emergency op, he stays 3 hours over. There is never a sense of urgency from him, because with or without a sense of urgency, the outcome would be the same, he would work methodically at the best pace for the task in hand, until it is done. End of. I don't support that it is like this, that there is no flexibility in the system, that there isn't another surgeon to take over, but until the NHS is way more funded, that's how it is.