If you’re married to a surgeon please tell me if you think I’m being unfair?

[Likao]

I am 40 and we have 1 dc age 2. I do everything for dd in terms of nursery runs, packing bags, ensuring dd has new shoes that fit, taking her to appointments etc. Any admin you can think of, I do.

i also work full time from home, so I have flexibility which is why I do nursery etc. At weekends DP will take dd out from 10ish to 4pm ish on a Saturday or Sunday so I can have a break. I don’t think this is ok or enough and I’m starting to get really pissed off that everything is left to me.

if I ask DP to do a specific task like put a wash on or pick up some food then he will. But what infuriates me is there is NEVER a sense of urgency from him to be home at a reasonable time and he would absolutely never ensure he was there to collect dd from nursery for example. I have to cut my data short often to collect her if unwell but he literally does not think he can do this because he can’t just leave patients (in his words). Obviously I know that there is a difference with his job but I am absolutely at the end of my tether tonight and very upset he’s been at work since 6am and not even asked how I’ve got on with dd and her bedtime (she’s very difficult at the moment). It’s making me very unhappy and feel very alone. It’s caused loads of arguments the last few weeks as I feel totally put upon. I don’t feel I have an equal relationship and the only answer I get back is that his job means he can’t do more. I’m sick of it all, should I expect more, is it fair?

Ah yes, that makes more sense. It is more difficult with 3 dc to achieve, as when older they most likely do different sports/activities (well, this is our choice, as they do golf, football, rugby, hockey, tennis and gymnastics over the weekend between the 3 of them😅). By the time we are done the weekend stuff, we are ready to just relax at home all of us. Dh will book concerts, football games and other events and take the older two....so our chill time is usually shared w the dc. Like today dh will take the younger two to cinema while I take older to tennis and prepare dinner.

Both these posts are spot on. High divorce rates, wedded to the culture, incredibly hard working, and the female variety are literally gods walking this earth, I don’t know how they do it.

We don’t invest in our people, our healthcare or work life balance. I’d suggest moving to a Scandinavian country or Holland so you can both have less pressure and more support from national nurseries which are free and a lot work 4 days a week.

The NHS is the worst employer in the U.K. in what it expects of people and what they have to give and give up.

Ive just advised my medicine keen DD away from medicine in this country for these reasons. The pressure, the terrible job insecurity as you climb the greasy pole, the competition around you, the constant budget cuts and being asked do more, the opening up of all NHS jobs to global applicants, yes you read that right, so now no jobs for all those that trained in medicine, nursing etc, now competing against thousands of other applicants, U.K. nationals are no longer prioritised.

The NHS has been underfunded for decades.

Your DH has a job, has worked incredibly hard to get it, feels under pressure to give everything.

Having a child means sometimes you do feel undervalued but life isn’t perfect. What’s the alternative? Divorce and be a single mum? Then find a new partner and move them in with your young girl? Not a chance if you read the thread the other night about interfering step fathers… not saying they’re all like that but how do you know until it’s too late?

Thingswill get easier the older she gets. Two and three are so hard.

That sounds like a lot of activities! And I guess it would become more about carving out me-time in between (reading a book while the teen plays tennis, having a glass of wine while cooking dinner)? Or like tag-teaming it so one of you can have a nice long bubble bath in peace?

They have both chosen their respective careers and chosen to have a child. They have to work with the time that is left to get their down time?
You can't make additional hours magically appear.
With the time that is available to them as a family she is getting a good chunk of it. It certainly doesn't sound as if he is getting more time.
If he was spending the weekend playing golf or something that would be very different.

YANBU but people tend to idolise surgeons so you'll get YABU answers.
I'm a doctor but not a surgeon. My 'D'H surgeon is just the same and honestly he has no idea what's going on in the kids lives.
Plenty of women are surgeons now and I can guarantee they aren't ignoring their kids to hang around at work. It's a job. A hard, important job. But it isn't the only hard important job out there and your kids are only young once. I can tell you from having an older child who calmly informs me "daddy loves his patients more than he loves me" that it will affect them.
I'm quietly getting my ducks in a row.

Not my partner but a parent.

Sorry but this is not a flexible job. You commit to your shifts and you have actual life/death emergencies. You can’t just leave, it’s a zero flexibility job.

Have you ever been to his workplace? Maybe go and get a feel for what it’s really like.

It’s hard to be their partner/ family member, but some jobs just come before family. Medical, government/ military, running a major company, etc. it’s a trade-off,

Suppose the best you could get is him going part-time/ flexible working so he gets a weekday off or finishes early some days, but the current arrangement seems to be working in terms of your child’s needs met.

I had a nanny and didn’t really know my parents very well as a child. Trade-off. Some jobs just aren’t compatible with being a hands-on parent 🤷‍♀️

Errr no, they're not 🙄

‘Nurses all around’… many nurses have a very unfavourable opinion of consultants/surgeons. Are you implying that the OP’s DH is going to be lured away by a tempting nurse? That’s quite offensive, really.

It sounds like you both have full time earnings so why aren't you getting a cleaner or nanny?

Absolutely not- we both worked full time when kids were small- to expect me to just be able to clear off for the day on Saturday for ‘me time’ is ridiculous

It's more than most people get! Yes, YABU!

I'm sorry this is happening in your marriage.
There was a post from a female surgeon with kids upthread similarly saying that whilst it is an incredibly demanding job, she still shares the drop offs etc. but leaves whilst her male colleagues are chatting etc.
I do think as a society we put men (and only men) in certain jobs on pedestals that excuse them from normal responsibilities.

I’d hate to have to take my kid out for 6 hours every weekend because my partner doesn’t want them around.

YABU - your DH clearly makes a real effort to redress the balance at the weekends and his job really is one where people might die if he’s preoccupied with DD’s pack up 🙄 Put it another way- if she had surgery would you want the surgeon to be rushing her op to get back for the school run?

Married to a surgeon, who has extra commitments as service lead/student education/research etc. I will freely admit he does little at home, but he works hard, often 6 days a week. He leaves the house at 7 and most days does not get back before 7/7.30. He did fewer hours when the children were younger but still had on call to deal with etc, plus it was early into his time as a consultant and I think those sudden higher expectations and the buck stopping with them, made him really take ownership of patient care. He doesn’t do much at home, but when he is home, then he is engaged with the children and doesn’t take that time for granted.

That being said, I didn’t get a day off every weekend as you do as we considered that family time-does your DH get a day off every weekend for 6 hours to do anything he wants?

The Scandinavian system has much to recommend it. However, be mindful of the rates of tax.

Oh, and my DH is not a dickhead with a god complex-whilst there are those around, there are fewer of them now.

Yes, it’s not a job, it’s a vocation, and if a partner cannot accept that they should bail out of the relationship before thinking about committing to marriage and children.

My DH wasn’t a surgeon, but it wasn’t an 9-5 job, and it wasn’t unusual for him to work 70 - 90 hrs per week. I worked part time and took care of school runs and everything else required to run a home and look after two children, and I was genuinely happy. I felt grateful my husband worked hard to provide for us and I didn’t even think of complaining, our relationship was and still is happy and solid. We are both retired now and enjoying the benefits of our hard work.
Parents also need to think about what they project onto their children, they learn from us, we have a duty to ensure they grow up feeling wanted, balanced and loved, not feeling like they are a nuisance and in the way. They are children for such a short time, and little ones miss nothing and pick up on parents emotions, their ‘perception’ of what is right or wrong within a relationship is learned from their parents.
Ours grew up with good organisational skills, a strong work ethic, and a lot of love, as a result they are happy and self sufficient in high end professional roles, we have a great adult relationship with them. I don’t regret a single ‘perceived’ sacrifice I possibly made during their childhood.

All these people saying “he’s a surgeon you know what you were signing up for” and thinking that surgeons are operating all day every day. I cannot stop laughing, and I wish I had the PR that surgeons do.

OP, your husband had a child with you so he knew what he was signing up for! But he’s opted out of all of it. Does it bother him? Have you spoken about it?

We are so willing to accept men in certain jobs (but never women in those same jobs) to just totally check out of family life. You work full time and may well earn more than him, but obviously don’t think it would be fair to fob off all the domestic stuff to him.

Agree that he is a weekend dad but without the cost and inconvenience of running his own home.

It is unclear whether this arrangement bothers him, if it’s temporary and whether he is suffering from feeling disconnected from his family.

How are you feeling today? I hope you can talk about it when you’re well rested and the resentment won’t just come spilling out. It’s tough for both of you right now.

You need to source extra childcare to balance things out.
He can't be in two places and you need support.
Let him pay for dxtra help.
Is there a reason you are not married?

Is that some sort of joke - about the standard NHS 37.5 hours a week.

Read up on junior Dr or now ‘residents’ contracts - it’s literally been all over the news with regards to their fight for pay. 37.5 hours would be the dream for them. Most average about 70

Comments about surgery attracting a bit of an arrogant pushy Alpha type of personality - well, maybe, but would you want a nervous timid type holding the scalpel if you were the patient?

I'm genuinely curious how many surgeons are not really "alpha males" but extremely high functioning, high intelligence and high masking autistic men. I can say without a doubt that DH's special interest is his field of medicine and he can hyperfocus on his work for hours or days beyond when a NT person might need a break. Due to their higher social status, they are welcomed by NT peers so it makes it very easy to mask as an arrogant type A man without dealing with the usual social burden of being ND.

It would also explain the rigidity and difficulty in their private lives. Being successful, wealthy or attractive (or all three) easily absolves a man of many responsibilities that are usually seen as necessary for adult life. If a ND man played video games all day long and didn't take care of his kids then he would get slated on MN. However when a surgeon engages in his special interest for 12hrs a day at work he's given a free pass even though both men have the same executive function deficits when it comes to contributing to domestic tasks.

And lastly, being a surgeon involves a degree of emotional detachment. You need to see each patient as blood, bones, tissue and "puzzle parts" of fixable materials. The moment you realise the gravity of potentially messing up a surgery on someone's mother, wife, child etc is when the nerves or panic creep in and could cause problems. At the risk of playing up clichees, I do believe ASD men have an advantage in being able to treat each surgical case with the amount of calmness and emotional detachment it requires.

@Laughinglama exactly! My husband is doing 65 hours this week, for example. In Northern Ireland the contract is different and you can be expected to work even longer hours. at Belfast City Hospital I would work 12 days in a row without a day off, 5 of those 7 days were 13 hour shifts, the rest were 8-10 hours each. And that's if you had no emergencies last minute and were able to go home on time. I wouldn't have wanted to be the patient being seen on day 12 as by that point you're exhausted and run down.

I think you're bang on with your theory @User757373 - my dad (also a high functioning autistic doctor) has the same belief. He's not a surgeon but you do need a certain level of detachment I think if you want to do a job like that.

Yes to the ASD comments @User757373 . Surgery and anaesthetics have higher rates of neurodiversity and it can be a real asset to the job. My husband can hyperfocus for long periods of time , is emotionally detached even with traumatic child cases - allowing him to focus on what's happening etc ... the problem in our marriage is he finds it difficult to be flexible to mine and my child's needs and he finds it difficult to empathise. Like I said before, fantastic doctor , not so fantastic husband/dad.

My husband's mum is a top solicitor , incredibly hard working and incredibly well regarded in her field. But was very absent from his childhood and family life. I guess it's rare to truly have it all - either family or work are going to have to come second at some point.