For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

If you take your child home in their swimsuit, how/where are you yourself getting changed? Or would you also be driving home in a wet swimsuit?

I’m not saying I think the man should have gone into the women’s changing rooms at all, but I sympathise with his difficulty. Very poor planning on the hotel’s part.

The child was at adult swim.

Her father safeguards her from seeing naked men by saying "close your eyes and hold my hand" and leading her to the cubicle in the gents.

The fact that the child was at adult swim is irrelevant. I’m assuming family changing rooms don’t magically appear just for the kids swim sessions so the issue would remain even if he’d got the right time.

As for ‘close your eyes and hold my hand’ - wholly inadequate imo.

I haven’t read the whole thing but wanted to highlight that swimming pools really need a solution for this! My DD would have to go swimming with her dad in the days I just couldn’t get out of work and he never went into the female changing rooms, but the staff wouldn’t let my daughter out without an adult waiting for her outside of the female changing rooms - it was a very bizzare rule and meant that whilst he was willing to wait for her outside the female changing rooms whilst she got ready (mind you she was about 7/8 at the time, she was taught how to quickly get ready, and then we would do everything else at home) - they made a huge deal about the fact that he couldn’t pick her up by entering the female changing room. Which is frustrating when families rely on both parents doing childcare - ironically young boys can be in women’s changing rooms.

Didn’t make sense at all! But there needs to be a third space where you have changing rooms or cubicals purely used for changing on random occasions when a dad can help out - and when a dad is actually doing his part of the childcare.

Lack of commonsense on his part: he had viable options, just didn't want to use them. Just sounds like your average dickhead dad.

I think you were right. The best thing for the child was to take her back to the hotel room. There are similar problems at the pool I attend, even though there is a family changing room as well as one for men and one for women.

I think this just sums it up as the most logical answer.

A group of women who are likely to be showering or changing are far more vulnerable than a child with her father to protect her.

There are also showers at the poolside at the gym for people to use after the steam room and lots of spaces at the side with pool loungers where the dad could have showered his daughter quickly quickly and got her dressed. I’m not even sure where the little girls clothes actually were, I don’t know if he was just planning to take her for a shower in the women’s changing room then take her up to her room to get dressed ready for bed wrapped in towels as there are shampoos and shower gels in the shower cubicles.
To be honest I wasn’t paying that much attention until I saw him heading for the ladies and it was my instinct to stop him going in.

The changing rooms are open plan, the showers with cubicles have frosted glass doors but the rest are completely open, there is just the one changing cubicle as I stated in my OP and the rest of the space is benches under the lockers where women get changed, they often walk naked from the shower to get a towel hanging on hooks opposite.
The changing room is very open but women are comfortable being naked as it’s supposed to be a safe space, if I had been changing when I man walked in then I’d struggle to return to that gym again as I’d find it distressing getting changed then a man just walking in - even if he is accompanying a child.

There are women at my gym who have scars, don’t want to undress in front of men for religious reasons, or who might have suffered past trauma from men - myself included

I understand the concern about keeping children safe but they have their parent present to protect them.

This man had absolutely no reason to access the women’s changing room with the other available options, the other women who were swimming were grateful for my intervention. The women who were changing had left before I got out of the pool but I imagine they would also have been grateful.

The timetable is on the gym website for hotel guests and there is a timetable at the hotel reception and on the door leading into the gym then again on the wall inside, members obviously know when it’s children’s hours.

I think it would have been a bit different if this had happened within children’s hours, I imagine there are more children in the men’s changing room with their fathers and it’s a completely different environment, I doubt there are the same worries about unwanted attention then bringing a child at adult times with just single men present.
This man just wanted to suit himself and had no interest on how his actions affected anyone else, it was obvious the way he was throwing things into swimmers paths for his daughter to chase and encouraging her to scream and splash people.

It’s been interesting to see the different opinions but I’m glad the majority of women feel the same way I do, if I thought the little girl was in any way at risk then I might have questioned if I was right or not but she was with her parent to keep her safe, he obviously knew the rules or I think he would have pushed harder to use the ladies changing room. I also wonder what would have happened if it had been one of the female staff working that evening.

I agree with the above.

I'd add that equally
nope ...no able person should ever be in the disabled facility.

Not allowed in the women's unless you're a woman = not allowed in the disabled unless you are disabled.

Posters vehemently protecting womens areas are suggesting the disabled changing area. How is it viewed acceptable to take over disabled peoples space?

Is it protect yourself as women by suggesting imposing on a different group?

How about some passion to protect all named designated spaces equally.

The hotel gym that I’m a member of (sounds similar to the one in the OP) has 2 x combination disabled / family changing rooms. Why would this be a problem?

There’s a separate disabled loo so if someone needs to use that urgently there’s no problem. Otherwise I think it’s a sensible use of space.

Where was your common sense? The 9 and 11 year old boys should have gone into the male changing room together with instructions not to leave the changing room without the other and to wait on poolside until you got there. An 11 year old is far too old to be in the changing room of the opposite sex.

Then it's a bloody good thing OP stopped the strange man going into the female changing rooms, where other 5yo girls might have been.

In the men's changing room.

It wasn't closed to guests. It was closed to children as it was an adults only session. At 8pm this is hardly unreasonable!

I don’t argue with that. I’m disagreeing with those posters saying the man should take his daughter into the men’s like it’s no big deal. The hotel should be providing a third option.

If I hadn’t stopped him at precisely that moment from entering the changing room he was about to walk into a room with potentially naked unsuspecting women.

I couldn’t say to him to “just wait” whilst I went to find the staff member. There is CCTV of the pool in the reception area or you can view the pool from the gym areas, the staff frequently give advice to people in the gym so I might have had to interrupt that, do you think this man was just going to wait outside the changing room for me once I walked away?

There are signs saying clearly that no one over the age of 8 should use changing areas for the opposite sex, they have that rule for a reason, do you disagree with this decision?

You might see it as me being passive aggressive but I wonder how you would have reacted if you’d been having a shower naked, putting moisturiser on, or just getting changed and a man came sauntering in just because it suited him better then the other available options? Would you have just carried on and not been bothered? Does the fact that you might not be bothered mean that other women should feel the same?

To access the changing room he would have needed to walk past the showers, on Wednesday the changing room was busy after the class so it’s very likely there were women in that room who did not consent to be viewed naked by a man. They were aware when entering the room that they might see/be seen naked by other women therefore they consented by their actions.

I find it interesting that you agree with my friend but you don’t have a any relevant point of view that makes me question my decision, you think I’m being unreasonable just because I got involved in something that at that point didn’t directly affect me - despite it being something that the majority of women here have said they would have appreciated?
Can you imagine a world where people didn’t stick up for others or turned a blind eye to something that might cause upset and distress to people?

All I can say is I hope that you are never in a situation where someone might have been able to assist you in some way but worries they might be just being passive aggressive.

Women need the support of other women, it’s thanks to the women before us “sticking their beak in” that we have as many rights as we do now. Think about it properly before you comment without giving the situation proper consideration and just wanting to argue, I don’t class your vote as valid but I’m open to having my mind changed if you can come back with a better reason for it…

Agreed. 11? Not only too old but I bet he was mortified.

Anyone else find it interesting that men are all too aware of the dangers other men pose when you're talking about their daughters, but in a general discussion about women's safety we get "not all men are like that" or "it's unfair and sexist to assume every man is a predator" or "don't be ridiculous, you're paranoid" etc. Lots of minimising that the threat is all in our heads.

This thread, in fact, proves that point nicely. The man in the OP literally only felt that the (non existent) men in the men's changing room were a threat to his daughter, but the (actual) man trying to enter the women's changing room shouldn't possibly be seen as any sort of threat.

I believe the general rule at most places(either written or unwritten) is the same for change rooms as they would be for public restrooms. If a child is very young and can't use the facilities independently the adult takes them into the adult's gendered space. This is the much more acceptable and appropriate course of action if no family change rooms are available.

People by and large accept that there is not an absolute need for adults to have privacy from very young children of the opposite sex but we do believe that adults of the opposite sex definitely need privacy from each other.

That’s actually a very good question! I only saw them with the robe and towels.
The only things I can think of is that he was just taking his daughter into the ladies to shower then taking her back to the room wrapped in towels.

He might have used the ladies changing room whilst the class was on and it would have been empty, other members know that the whole pool is used by the class at that time so stay away and hotel guests would have been told or seen the timetable, I don’t see how he got the clothes afterwards when he didn’t go in the changing room, unless he planned to get them the next day.

I guess we will never know but it does make it worse in my opinion if he was just taking his daughter to shower when there are showers by the poolside. They don’t have shampoo, body wash etc but surely he’d have had them in his room?!

I have not referred to individual circumstance of poster's gyms. Your gym has shared space.

OP has not mentioned shared space as an alternative to womens areas. OP said disabled area.
If the space is for families and /or disabled then it's clear that I'm not able to object.

The toilet for just disabled is out of bounds.

I haven’t read the full thread but while I 100% agree that no man (parent or not) should be enter the ladies changing room I wouldn’t have a problem with my husband taking my daughter into the men’s room to get changed. He is more than capable of protecting her from any weirdos and assuming he takes her to get changed in a cubicle then there is no issue…

Side note to this for when DS is 8, does he go into changing room alone with adult men at this age? I think I would still feel uneasy. But equally wouldn't take him to women's as I wouldn't want young girls to feel uncomfortable.

My dad used to take me swimming when I was little and he would take me to the men's changing rooms. Often he'd cover my eyes because men were naked in there obviously. But I did see some naked men.

If I was ever in a changing room and a father was there helping to change his daughter, I wouldn't mind. I would also hope the father would be discreet when he's changing himself.

I would be discreet when changing myself, but the same applies if there was no man in the changing room. I would never get naked in front of strangers, male or female. So to me, it would make no difference if a man was in there. He wouldn't see any more of me than what he already saw at the pool. I think you were a busy body and feel sorry for the girl.

Glad you ticked him off and said no. All of this blurriness around single sex spaces makes it easier for the boundary pushers to push, and he was clearly one of them, you can tell that already by his behaviour around the use of the hotel pool. Cheeky fucker.