For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

tbf I appreciate it's harder to make those calls when they aren't your own kids.

If I was a childminder now in the same circs I can only think I'd have to take it back to the parents and ask them what they want to do, whether that's giving you permission to let the older children change in the men's, or accepting they'll have to stick clothes on over wet bathers and then get showered and changed at home, or taking time off so one of them could go with you, or just accepting that once they are over a certain age swimming isn't one of the activities that it's fair/appropriate for you to take them to alone.

TBH most pools are quite strict regarding how many children one adult can accompany, I'm surprised they let you take 4 kids on your own! Even back in the 90s when my dad used to take us swimming on a sunday we always had to alternate because there were 3 of us and 1 adult could only take a maximum of 2 kids under 8.

This isn't a new concept, it's pretty common for dad's to take their daughters swimming. The correct place for them to get changed is the male changing room, in a cubicle if available. Same with toilets.

My husband has taken all 5 of our daughters swimming and never been into a womans space to change or go to the toilet, unnecessary.

Of course you are right.

If a woman went swimming with her son she wouldn’t go and get changed in the men’s, would she. It’s even worse for a man to go into the ladies for reasons I don’t need to explain.

What an arrogant, entitled arsehole.

In the Men's. Or in his hotel room, obviously.

The little girl could go into the women's cbanging room on her own.

The man's decision to take his daughter swimming during adult swim without thinking about where she would get changed afterwards is to the detriment of his daughter. Women are not responsible for sorting out the mess that men make.

"these circumstances are the pretty much universally culturally accepted norms that nudity in children is different to nudity in adults, and that safeguarding for children is different to safeguarding for adults."

Most adults of the opposite sex want absolute privacy and separation from each other but they care much less when it comes to very young children. Small children aren't generally considered threats to privacy, they don't care about being seen nor do adults tend to care about being seen by them.

But complete separation among adults of the opposite sex should always be an absolute right.

interesting way of saying
'Oh yeah, I was wrong, that's not a good solution in these circumstances.'

why should men just follow the rules when women can buy themselves special towels to hide under, or give up access to the disabled facilities or "be discrete" and "keep to themselves", or....

in fact forget the 'chowels' let's just all buy red cloaks and white bonnets and give the patriarchy that extra little boost

I agree with your friend. I think bc the father was a PITA you indirectly took it out on the little girl. You weren't in the changing room, if people in the changing room were uncomfortable they should/would have spoken for themselves. You were still in the pool , and instead of getting on with your lenghths, you were still interested in what this father and daughter were doing and were given an opportunity to stick your beak in and you did. You don't work there and as you were not in the changing room you weren't affected. If you thought what the dad was about to do was wrong, you should have alerted a member of staff. I feel it's passive aggressive on your part bc he got in your way earlier.

This idiot guy did not think the rules applied to him, and did not think ahead, but perhaps he will do so now. A friend's son is going through a divorce and he has joint custody with his ex of their four year old daughter. My friend is so worried about how he's going to cope in situations like this. My advice was to call ahead, check policies, family areas etc It is tough for any solo parent, but a daddy and a little daughter have added difficulties.

Safeguarding is everyone's responsibility, so OP is within her rights to intervene. HTH.

I am a bit confused, where were the girl's clothes?

because arrogant people don't see other people (and sexist twats don't see women) as real people, whose thoughts and feelings and lives are as valid as their own. Other people are basically extras in a tv show, or NPC's in a video game to them - they add a bit of background colour and can occasionally be vaguely useful, but don't actually matter. In the same way you wouldn't get embarrassed about what an ant or a slug thought about what you were doing, because they aren't on your level.

They don't care about what other people think of them because they don't care about other people. It's all about them.

So his argument was that he couldn't change her in the men's changing room because she was a girl but it was perfectly all right that he marches in on a whole lot of other women changing. How does that work? What an entitled idiot. You did the right thing.

In the same way you wouldn't get embarrassed about what an ant or a slug thought about what you were doing, because they aren't on your level.

@latetothefisting you've just blown my mind a bit with that sentence!

Dear, it's not your fault. You were completely right. That man is a creep, and I think you need to stay away from your friends.

You definitely were in the right.
Disappointed at those recommending to use the accessible space. As someone now requiring a wheelchair for the remainder of my life I’ve discovered how difficult it is to be disabled. “I’ll be quick” doesn’t make it right, it really doesn’t. Please think before you use an accessible space- life’s hard enough.

He was a hotel guest. He could take her to their room.

I'm struggling to fathom how anyone thinks YABU. My husband has taken our daughter to get changed in the men's for years when he takes them swimming. When she's 8 she will go into the ladies instead and get changed by herself. Same true in reverse for our boys. It's not hard.

So mam behaves like an entitled misogynist prick but the fault is with the woman.....🤯

How do you know that the women in the women’s changing room would feel comfortable having a man in the same room they were getting undressed in?

Safety isn't just physical. If you honestly think that this generation's 11yo boys don't have sexual awareness, and that 11yo girls don't feel safe to get changed in front of them, you are completely bonkers and there's no point arguing. Not to mention, the boys themselves would be equally mortified being put in that position.

Your friend is wrong. This man was entitled at best. I'm glad you spoke up. People like him ruin things letting their child run rampant and the changing room thing was really weird.

Clearly he was acting entitled, to swim in that time slot. If he had been less disruptive, other patrons could have turned a blind eye to the youngster.

However, there has to be a place where the father and daughter can shower and change at the hotel pool.

Fathers usually feel most comfortable taking their small children into the Men's and most mothers would take their young children into the female change room.

In this instance the man should have used the disabled facility if it was clear to see that no one else was in there. Many pools have a disabled/baby/family sign. The staff member should have suggested that.

Taking children back to their room is not always practical. What if they needed to go to the toilet mid swim?
What if Mum is sleeping?

Nonsense.

The only options aren’t either man stands in the middle of room where women are changing or little girl stands in the middle of the room where men are changing.

This is exactly the sort of situation where you take your child home still in their swimmers. It’s even more convenient when you’re actually staying in the same building,

The bar is so fucking low for fathers that entitled behaviour like this despite plenty of alternatives is seen as great.

Completely disagree. I’d argue that it’s even more important to safeguard a 5 year old girl from the nudity of strange men, given that she is so much more vulnerable and less able to advocate for herself.

The hotel is remiss to be offering children’s swimming sessions without providing appropriate, family changing facilities.