For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

wtaf? Of course a grown man shouldn't be in a women's changing area where there are open showers and spaces. End of.

If your opposite-gendered child is too young to change on their own then you have to plan accordingly eg bring loose top and joggers to quickly shove on after a quick towel down.

She would have been perfectly safe with him in the mens changing room and in this case as they were hotel guests he could have just put a robe on her and gone back to their room.

Yes , op mentioned it in her post . He was told earlier .

Thank you for standing up for women and girls. I suspect I'd be too cowardly to do the same unfortunately, but with women like you prepared to enforce their boundaries hopefully this insane fever dream will end sooner rather than later.

The problem was that the swimming pool staff wouldn’t let my daughter go unless an adult came to pick her up from the changing room.

To access the pool (this one in particular) you had to go through either the male or female changing room. So parents picking up their children would have to walk through the changing room and wait on the other side. The swimming instructor would then dismiss the children.

So whilst her dad would go through the male changing room and tell the instructor that he will pick her up, she will meet him on the other side. The instructor refused to let him pick up my daughter because they could only dismiss her into the female changing room.

As I’m writing it it sounds so stupid. Boys were allowed in th female changing rooms with their mums. But girls who had dads didn’t have a work around, as they couldn’t go in the male changing room anyway (the instructor wouldn’t allow it - and rightly so, my daughters dad did not want to take her into the male changing room).

So this case is just to highlight that some dads are trying to do their share and swimming pools need accommodate this. Of course men should not be allowed if female changing rooms, but men should be allowed to pick up their children from swimming.

Precisely. The huge difference is one is an adult in the opposite sex space, the other a young child accompanied by her parent for protection. Adults have a higher expectation of privacy and may feel uncomfortable or vulnerable when changing in the presence of adults of the opposite sex. Children, especially young ones, are generally less aware of these privacy issues and tend to feel more comfortable with their parents.

There are also different expectations for adult behavior compared to children's. For example, adults are expected to respect each other's privacy in ways that are not as relevant for very young children.

When you stay in a hotel it's up to you to read the rules about pool times, surely that's common sense?

When I've stayed in a hotel I've always got my daughters changed back at the room because it's more convenient.

I'm flabbergasted that some people think it's ok for a man to bring his daughter into womens changing rooms. I think my DH would rather gouge out his eye balls than have the brass neck to do this.

He should have got his daughter changed back at the room, simple.

Men bringing their daughters swimming should cautiously bring them into the mens changing area and just get a cubicle.

You were brave to speak up OP. Your friend is absolutely bonkers BTW.

He probably had no idea about the changing facilities. He probably didn’t know there was a disabled changing area, or kids couldn’t swim after 8pm, or kids under 8 having to go in the same sex changing room as their parent. The OP was a member and familiar with all this. I think dad needs to be cut some slack, the hotel should have briefed him a bit better.

It's called common sense.

It's a hotel pool - there are always set hours. There are always men's and women's change rooms. There are towels, there are robes. There are other people sharing the facility.

He needs to adapt to the challenges and limitations of the situation, to prepare himself, to parent his child appropriately and to consider other people and disturb other people's use of the facility.

Yes, he wants to tire his child out - but he's missed the set hours for children.

Yes - he wants to change his child - but he's not a woman, so he can't enter a woman only space.

There is absolutely no reason for him, a grown man, to feel entitled to walk into the women's changing room, and then complain when he's challenged.

I'm sure when his daughter is pubescent /a teen and using women's changing facilities, he'd have a completely different opinion on the idea of another father entering the women's changing rooms with a young daughter and seeing his teen daughter undressed. What a cockwomble.

It’s not a new thing I’m the eldest of 3 girls dad took us swimming on his own really often remember feeling smug and grown up going into the ladies on my own while he took the younger two in to the men’s. This was in the 80s! No issues.

Men in the ladies is an absolute no no. He was being a total dick thinking otherwise. It’s almost unbelievable he’d think that was ok but this thread shows me otherwise!

little girls in the mens changing rooms, with their dads, is totally normal though. My husband used to take my girls swimming at weekends, when the male changing rooms were full of dads with their little ones. It was a lovely atmosphere by all accounts, dads bonding over forgotten hairbrushes and toddler strops. Saying paedophiles might be watching is reductive and feeds into a narrative that all men are abusers/ltb arseholes. Paedophikes might be in the ladies too. And little girls seeing male bodies in a normal changing room environment, when with their dad, is totally fine. It’s just bodies, it’s not weird or dirty or damaging. Making it so will store up all kinds of problems for later.

so op, no, you are absolutely not being unreasonable. He should be in the men’s with his daughter, cubicle or no cubicle. Well done for pointing out the ridiculously obvious.

If the man had taken his little girl swimming at the correct time, as advised by the hotel, there would have been other small children changing with their fathers and they would collectively have made sure safe protocols were observed. Likewise in the women's changing rooms.

This man chose not to take the child swimming at that time because he wanted to use her to give him access to a place where he would see naked women. Very creepy.

This is ridiculous. The idea of men in the ladies is utterly wrong in my view but you reduce the argument to tatters when you throw in this kind of rubbish. Don’t be daft.

You did the right thing. He could've either checked if the males was empty and if there was a free cubicle or just do what he did in the end and take her to their room. My dh would never dream of doing that with our dd.

As above, ridiculous. Do you really live in a world where you see rapists and paedophiles in every man. How sad. And wrong.

This argument - about female only spaces - has become so toxic and extreme that it has skewed some people’s logic and created a situation where it might - because of this kind of silly comment - look unreasonable. Which is nuts as there are many perfectly moderate and reasonable justifications for female only spaces. All men bring rapists is not one. A man taking his daughter swimming and being an inconsiderate dick does not make him a sex offender. It makes him a dick. Let’s educate rather than lower the tone and logic of our own reasonable arguments.

Check yourselves ladies. You’re doing us and the general premise a great disservice.

Not every man. This man, who avoided taking his child swimming at children's swimming time and avoided using the changing room for dads and children.

This man, with a very obvious agenda, is not every man.

Most men have some cop on and comply with rules and protocols. Most men respect women's spaces. If one doesn't, it is reasonable to ask why not. And if his rule-breaking gets him into women's spaces that he is not meant to be in, calling out his bad actions is not a comment on 'all men'.

This was my thought when I read it.

Man deliberately ignoring the swimming times and acting like an entitled arsehole is borderline predatory and not safe to
women, simply because he cannot see/doesn’t care that it’s inappropriate for him to go into the women’s changing rooms where every single woman would feel uncomfortable at his presence.

As women we don’t always know which men are safe to be around, they don’t have a sign on their heads saying “rapist” or “paedophile”, but I’m pretty sure a man insisting he has a right to be in the women’s changing rooms isn’t one of the good ones.

YANBU about them being in the pool outside of children's times, but seriously he was trying to sort out his daughter not look at other women getting changed.

I think you did absolutely the right thing OP by speaking out.
I can't believe that anyone on this thread thinks a man going into a women's changing room is ok simply because he has his young daughter with him!

I am surprised that anyone hasn't heard of the rule that an adult takes a young child under 8 into their changing room with them. It's common sense, surely?

The number of posters sympathising with the man in this situation is quite shocking.

How do you know that? Are you he? He had two choices for sorting his daughter out - the men's changing room, or their hotel room. He did not need a third one containing women.

So the women already in there don’t matter?

It’s always been the case that the child under 8 goes into the changing room of their parent’s sex, always.

What is it with women wanting to allow men into our single sex spaces nowadays?

Tricky! I wouldn't want my daughter having to go to the men's changing room so I'd understand if a Dad brought her to the ladies but we had family changing room at the pools we used so this never came up.

Seriously??
So the other women and potentially young girls in the female changing room would have to get changed in front of your DH, a man, and that's ok?

How would you feel if you were in the women's changing room with your daughter both getting changed and two or three men came in with their daughters while you were there? That would be ok would it?

Of course an adult male should not be going into the womens changing room. Absolutely bat shit. OP you were 100% right.

I posted further up thread because as a dad the selfishness of people winds me up.

But honestly from being on this thread I just can’t believe that there are any women or men who think any scenario where a grown adult male enters the female changing room at a swimming pool other than a life threatening incident is ok.

I am genuinely baffled!

Of course you’re not unreasonable. But why is there always a devils advocate “friend” in these sorts of obvious situations who voices their disagreement and sets out clearly the reasons why?

A sceptical person might doubt the existence of said friend and suggest that the poster simply requires kudos and validation.