For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

What is bonkers is these sort of posts belittling women's opinions with stupid comments like 'You honestly think he's just gonna stroll in their with his daughter in tow and rape a room full of women?'
A man has no place in a women's changing room. Why on earth should a whole room of women by shocked and embarrassed by a man walking into a female space to protect the father's sensibilities about what may or may not upset his daughter? I very much doubt a little girl of 4/5 is going to be upset by being in a cubicle in a male changing room with her own father's constant presence. If she is upset, you would have to wonder why.

Wow. I'm staggered than any woman think a there is any circumstance where a man should be allowed in a women only space. If this man doesn't feel comfortable having his daughter around men then can he not see the irony of him feeling he has the right to be in a women only space. It's total hypocrisy. He was totally out of order.

The problem is open changing rooms, they are ridiculous. It should be all private changing cubicles. Most places I have been swimming have private cubicles in a unisex space which is perfect for parents. Especially with children 8+, I was terrified when my boy first started going into men's toilets alone when we were out.
There was one I went to and was very glad I went alone first as I was planning on taking my teenagers too, one girl and one boy, but I wasn't aware it was open changing spaces, not a chance I wanted them out in the open getting changed. Not only would they feel super uncomfortable but I am aware there are both male and female sex offenders attracted to the same sex and what better place for them to get a look than an open changing space.

• Grown men leer, little girls don't. We all know how awful it is to be leered at. Even if there's no opportunity for the man to escalate to rape this time, the leer is a gestural reminder that woman are the rapeable class, the fuckable class, the prey. It's a threat of what he'd do if the situation allowed it.
• Fred West didn't let the presence of his daughters stop him.
• One woman has to be the slowest, the last to leave. What if he is still there when she's the only one left?

One woman has to be the slowest, the last to leave. What if he is still there when she's the only one left?

And I bet he will make sure he's still there when there's only one woman left.

In the men’s changing room. He’s with her, she’s in no danger.

Exactly. His stupidity and entitlement in assuming that other men are a threat to his DD but also thinking it is acceptable to make adult women feel threatened by walking into the female changing room himself is staggering.

In what normal, sane world would anyone think you are unreasonable?

The hotel staff are unreasonable for allowing a child to swim during adult only hours

The dad is an absolute lunatic if he thinks it’s acceptable for any man to enter a changing room full of unaware, naked women for any other reason than fire/risk to life.

Your friends are idiots if they think it is acceptable for men to enter women’s changing rooms.

You are only unreasonable if you don’t make a formal complaint to management.

The poor child though. I would be quite concerned for her general welfare if this is the kind of parenting she is subjected to.

The 7% of men posters who have voted the OP is being unreasonable @TimetoPour

Ideally there should be family changing spaces. But in this case there weren’t any. If there was no one imminently needing the accessible changing room, using it would have been the best solution for everyone.

I understand what you are saying about disabled people’s right to have their own space, same as what others are saying about women’s right to have theirs. But what about the little girl’s right to have a safe space to change? Surely that should be more important than the principle of keeping the accessible changing room empty when there was no one there who needed it.

I think a young girl is as entitled to be ‘shocked and embarrassed’ in the presence of a room of naked men as any adult woman. There’s no need to turn it into something weird and ‘wonder why’. My daughter is younger so I haven’t got to that stage with her yet, but my 6yo DS certainly feels a strong sense of embarrassment. It doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with him and he hasn’t had any bad experiences. He is quite mature for his age so maybe that explains it.

(To be very clear though again before someone comes back at me - I do NOT think it is acceptable for a man to enter a women’s changing room under any circumstances.)

I see your point, of course, but it's diluting the rights of disabled people. I'm not disputing there's an issue but believe infringing on disabled people's spaces isn't the answer. "Use the disabled space" shouldn't be the de facto response to issues like this.

But at the same time you have a group of adult women who feel threatened by one man in their space, so their solution is to send a little girl in a changing room full of men. (BTW I’m not saying he should have used the ladies changing room, just pointing out the issue here).

Unfortunately there will always be entitled, self absorbed dicks who also think the world should stop spinning for them.

As a mother of boys, I wouldn’t dream of entering the men’s changing room with them. Equally, my husband wouldn’t dream of taking our daughter in to the ladies.

The adult uses the respective changing room and keeps their child safe until it is inappropriate to do so (most centres suggest age 8). At this point, the children are capable and you crack on with the rules or find a centre that has mixed changing facilities.

I would like to think people would think twice after reading so many people’s out rage in this thread. Unfortunately, I doubt it though.

Yes, exactly that. Me (man) with girls aged 4-6 and woman with girl aged 10/11. Children getting changed/showered, adults fully clothed. No privacy at all. As directed by swimming school.

Yanbu. A man going into a ladies changing room is a huge no no. The solution was for him to return to his hotel room in this case or take dd into the men's changing room. Can't believe anyone think it ok for him to go into the ladies.

This thread makes me feel like I'm from another planet. What's so shocking about children briefly seeing a naked adult body (in a safe environment with their dad?) Surely being exposed to a variety of normal body types is a good thing.

Likewise, a tiny percentage of the population are paedophiles. Are people assuming a lot of male changers would want to look at a naked 4yo?!

@Aposterhasnoname So many people have quoted this as it's early on in the thread and then no one bothers to read the rest of the update I made. I have responded earlier on!! That's the last time I post early on in a thread!!

Earlier today: "To all who have responded to this sent very early on in the thread yesterday, my response was to immediately think of the little girl in question. In hindsight I have reflected having seen a lot of great debate on this since. I fully appreciate the argument against it and agree he should think more carefully. Thought I'd say in case anyone else feels the need to respond there is no need - I get the message."

No. Their solution is to tell the father to figure out a solution that does not involve them.

@Sunglow1921 it's not the womens responsibility to find a solution for the little girl. We need to stop making/expecting women to find solutions for men. Her father was responsible!

The actual problem here is men. Both women and men don't want their children to go into the mens because of men. What are men doing about this? They all seem to know and understand yet they do NOTHING to resolve it. Well expect women to continue to budge up and shut up.

Women who make it a problem for women to solve are part of the problem.

Ok. I would think the older girls would have definitely been uncomfortable with you being there.

Could you not have just simply taken the girls(4-6) into the men's room at that facility?

Surely the hotel have a policy on this. Standard practice in swimming pools is anyone over the age eight uses the changing room for their gender anyone under eight can go in the changing room corresponding to the adult they are with. Dads all over the country take their daughters swimming every single day and manage without any palaver or mentally scarring their kids for life. Anyone thinking it is ever ok for an adult male to go into ladies changing room needs to give their head a wobble. Honestly, even if a man needs to come into a changing room to administer first aid they first give a shout to check everyone is decent. So yes OP you did do the right thing.

Well, I probably could have done but I had been excplitictly told to use the girls' locker rooms. We had been on waiting lists for various swim classes for more than six months when we got a place there and it was the most affordable one to boot - I could not risk jeopardising the places we had just managed to get.

The older girl made it very clear she was uncomfortable!

The minor embarrassment that a young child feels about naked bodies is nothing compared to the embarrassment of a group of women following puberty. They are different things altogether. The little girl would be accompanied by her father throughout, not sent into the changing room alone. Please you agree that the female changing rooms are entirely inappropriate for a male though!

That's a rather disingenuous way of putting it. You aren't sending a little girl, unaccompanied into a lion's den.
The post I replied to above was pointing out the irony of the dad's position, which is what I responded to.