For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

Well it IS acceptable for a father to take his little girl into the men’s because thats where he changes. Thats the rules for toilets and changing rooms

As a woman, no of course I wouldn’t take a young boy into the men’s changing room. It would be inappropriate for me to be there. I don’t think a little boy in the women’s changing room is quite as much of a safeguarding issue as a little girl in the men’s

Right let’s break this down slowly:
You see men as a safeguarding issues around naked little girls.

EXCELT when that is a man coming into the women’s changing rooms where there will be naked women and little girls. Is he magically not a safeguarding issue then because he has a child with him?

It’s not like this a new issue. Swimming pools / sports centres have been used in the Uk for decades. We have a system that has worked fine for, until some entitled men came along.

This is the established practice - children under 8 go into the changing room that matches the sex of their parent. If child and parent are opposite sexes and the child is a bit older, say 6 or 7 eg a boy in the women’s changing room, then the mother uses a cubicle if available or otherise tries to keep their child to the side / corner/ unobtrusive part of the room and uses a towel when they change them, does let the child stare etc .

The other women notice the little boy in the room and don’t march around naked, the wrap a towel around themselves etc . Someone probably offers then a Cubicle.

We all do this because many of us have been mothers and we understand than it can be awkward. It’s a compromise but we all try to make it work.

Of course it’s not an issue with a younger child.

I don’t know how it works in the men’s changing area but I can’t imagine that many decent men are keen to wave their penis in the face of a 6 year old . Id imagine they use a towel etc . And it the dads job to keep the child in the corner facing him etc .

Children aged 8 or over go in the changing room that matches their own sex. Most NT 8 year olds can dress themselves .

Older children who need help because of disability or SN used the disabled spaces , disabled sessions or pool thats have family rooms .

This has worked JUST FINE in the Uk for at least 70 years.

It’s only now that some entitled men think they can march into women’s safe spaces to do their performance parenting that it’s become a problem. And we all know who we have to thank for that

The rule is pretty simple: if a child is 7 or younger they use the changing room of the sex of the
adult they are with. If the child is 8 or older they use the changing room of their own sex.
Nobody over 8 is allowed to enter the changing room of the opposite sex.

I really wish people would stop thinking they are special and that the rules don’t apply to them.

If your daughter goes swimming with her dad and you don’t want her in the men’s changing room
either choose a pool with family changing rooms, choose a time where she can go with a woman or wrap her up and get her changed at home.

The solution is NEVER to have a man or older boy in the female changing room

He's an idiot

Children under 8 go in the room for the sex of their parent.

Over 8 go in their own sec changing room, alone if ness

Alternatively use the unisex disabled or family room.

There is no situation ever where my dh would go into the ladies changing. We have two girls. He's on a different planet (along with some people on mumsnet)

As I said upthread, while I do think young boys deserve to have their privacy respected as well, I don’t think it’s the same sort of safeguarding concern as young girls around naked men. Yes I agree family changing rooms are always the ideal, I don’t think I would want to take my children to my gym pool if these weren’t available.

My son is 6 - too young to send into the men’s changing room on his own. But he has quite a well developed sense of privacy already and would, I know, be uncomfortable getting changed in-front of stranger women. This is despite him seeing me naked at home as normal. Although funnily enough, it’s actually girls around his own age that he would be most mortified about. He’s really funny about his sister seeing him naked for some reason.

I agree. These places take plenty of money but don't provide appropriate facilities. I used to swim in a Victorian pool, the changing cubicles were round 3 sides of the pool, one side was for males and one for females, the cubicles at the far end across the short side of the pool were just sort of up for grabs but really didn't get used much. The cubicles were floor to ceiling brick walls with a proper door, not flimsy like so many modern cubicles. The other advantage was there was always a lifeguard on duty so you never felt alone. The Victorians could do it, why can't we?

God some people really make a meal of everything. My husband has taken my two girls swimming for years. At no point has he ever needed to go in the ladies changing room and would be horrified at the thought.

If the changing rooms aren’t idea, it is easy enough to get a 4/5 year old changed quickly on the side of a pool by throwing on a hooded towel and then exiting.

I do remember once having a similar conversation with a guy at baby swimming. He was with his wife and decided it would be fine to come in the open plan ladies while his wife was changing to help with the baby. I was like er get out please. It don’t cross his mind at all to take the baby into the men’s like some of the other dads did or that the majority were just cracking on on their own.

Entitled man prick

1- Was told not to take his kid swimming after a certain time as the pool was for adults. He did it anyway

2 - he left her get in peoples way, shrieking etc (normal kid stuff, not her fault) and didn’t nothing about her getting in the way of swimmers

3- Moaned that he couldn’t take his daughter into the female changing room, when let’s be honest, there are often naked or half dressed women and girls.

100% male entitlement. Thank you for speaking up

I don't see what's so awful about a 4yo girl going into the men's changing room. Is it that she might see an adult male naked? Well, bodies exist ... we all have them ... they're not inherently good or bad, it's what you do with them that makes them so. If the men around her are getting changed in the ordinary way, she'd think nothing of it. I remember being quite curious about human bodies at that age; it would be sad to teach a child that they're all shameful and bad.

Is it that she might be looked at by a man? But her dad is right there, and any potential predators present (very unlikely in itself) would be absolutely crazy to even look in that situation. They'd probably get dressed and get out asap.

No they shouldn't have to. Cubicles are the answer.

The adult men might have been uncomfortable with a curious little girl studying their bodies.

In the interim, I personally would be boycotting any facilities that didn’t provide family changing. I wouldn’t find this difficult - in the 3 different areas I have lived over the past few years, there have always been several local pools that have family changing rooms. Hotels, private gyms and council-run leisure centres so plenty of options.

In regards to Issue 1: A man is a potential threat both physical and in terms of privacy to the women and girls who may be in there so therefore an adult male stays out of a women's room.

In regards to Issue 2: Small children don't feel concern nor do adults tend to be concerned about being seen by small children so this is why the child goes into the opposite sex restroom/change room and not the adult. The child is not a physical or privacy threat as the adult would be. A woman takes a young boy into the women's room and not the men's for a similar reason. She's not likely to pose any physical threat to the men or boys in there but would still be an infringement on their privacy unlike a small child.

Necessarily long OP, but -

I always took my small boys to the women’s. Same applies for small girls if with dads - they go to his changing room. No big deal.

I think it’s you that’s missing my point. Of course that man shouldn’t be going into the women’s changing room. But neither should it be expected that the little girl be taken into the men’s. Neither is appropriate in my opinion.

The male changing rooms being empty at the time is neither here nor there, that could change at any point while the girl was still in there.

Bravo!

The more women assert their very reasonable boundaries in this the better! It may make men think twice in future.

It's the dad's responsibility to make sure his daughter behaves respectfully towards the other people in the changing room, of course, which means not staring. But he can do that without teaching her that naked bodies are bad things. Just private.

It is appropriate- where else should little girls go? Theyre with their dad. A protector they can trust 100% who will ensure they’re safe. If a man is such a fuckwit he can’t keep his daughter safe in a changing room then I despair for that child

?? But women often have ‘curious little boys’ with their mums in the female changing room, still
better than having a curious grown man watching you, no? Or are you suggesting that mums with little boys should use the mens changing room?

Some of these replies are batshit. Surely it's obvious that a child of either sex should not have to see a stranger of either sex naked?? 🤔

No it’s not either/or. There are other options - clearly, as the man took one of them in the end (walking back to his hotel room while wet). But my point is that the hotel shouldn’t be offering family swim sessions while providing such sub-standard changing facilities in the first place.

But neither should it be expected that the little girl be taken into the men’s It is expected though. If a man is with a child that can’t get changed on their own, it is expected that they will go in the men’s changing room.

that’s grand if you have that option where you live , many people don’t. Children learning to swim is a really important skill. Where I live there are massive waiting lists for lessons in certain pools. I wouldn’t expect a dad to put off swimming lessons for fear of bringing their daughter into the mens.

No it’s not either or - it’s kids under 8 go in the changing room of the parent. The end. It’s THAT simple

Hotels cannot spirit up a family changing room. It’s on parents to do what they’ve been doing for decades - sticking to their changing room and taking their kids in until the age deemed appropriate by the facilities they’re using

It’s really not rocket science