For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

They have an equal right to privacy. And little girls should not have to be in the presence of naked strange men. Whether there’s 10 of them or one of them. I’m glad we agree that little girls belong in the women’s changing room, because you seem to be suggesting that it is ok for them to be in the men’s changing room too?

Good point. I saw a post earlier about a ten year old boy with sen having to go into the womens. Not sure if there is a disabled changing room everywhere unfortunately.

Must vary by area I guess? I'm in London and have used many pools over the years. Lots of local authority ones have cubicles in those mixed sex "changing villages". But all the gyms I've been a member of have had single sex changing with a tiny number of cubicles for how busy they are. Absolute expectation to use communal open plan. The cheap facilities available in a local school after hours have no cubicles at all, it's all open plan.

Actually the next borough over has two pools with single sex changing and just about enough cubicles (although you'd queue at peak time and again, expectation is that open plan is acceptable).

My Dad used to help us get changed in the men's when we were little and my mum wasn't there - it was fine. He was our Dad and he protected us and looked after us.

If the girl's Dad was a danger, letting them both come into the women's won't protect her. If the girl's Dad was not a danger, he can protect her in the men's changing room.

I've stopped a man from doing the exact same thing. He got really huffy with me.

Men are entitled.

@DrCoconut the public swimming pools near me all have cubicles but it’s nearly impossible to get swimming lessons for kids there they are in such high demand. Private gyms/hotels have open plan but also do swimming lessons for kids, I was lucky to get a space for my child in one of those but it doesn’t have any cubicles at all.

Yeah, I never understand this. if your chid has SEN, then of course he can use the disabled facilities. Please go ahead and use those and make it a much less stressful experience for him, for you, and for all the women in the changing room.

I suspect this will be a godsend for SIL once DN is formally diagnosed. She cannot trust him in the men's alone - not because of him being unsafe aroudn men but because he is a bit of a chaos monster. He's just reaching the age where she can't take him into the women's, and she's currently working aroudn it by bundling him into the car and taking him home. But it means they can't really stop to have something to eat or hang out with friends and I know she'd like to but with very very limited disabled spaces in our gym, she doesn't currently feel comfortabel using them.

Surely after 5 years, he should know what is expected in this situation? Sounds like:

1. he was showing off with all the throwing into the pool

2. is arrogant to be arguing with the staff

3. not a very involved father, has not taken his daughter swimming before therefore did not know that entering the ladies changing room with her is not the done thing.

Just because something has always been done, doesn’t automatically make it acceptable. It’s not my experience anyway - my dad would never have taken me swimming on his own if I was too young to get changed by myself, and my friend’s dads were the same. Thankfully modern parenting is much more equal.

As a woman, no of course I wouldn’t take a young boy into the men’s changing room. It would be inappropriate for me to be there. I don’t think a little boy in the women’s changing room is quite as much of a safeguarding issue as a little girl in the men’s. For obvious reasons. But I stand by what I say - these venues should have a duty to provide suitable family changing rooms.

Young kids accompany parents into their changing rooms. Kids over 8 can get in a costume by themselves in their own changing room. Simple!

You are absolutely correct.

I hate it when people bring their older boys into changing rooms, it 100% is not appropriate. My daughter is 10 and the boys in her class make lots of comments so no way should they be watching women get changed.

@ProfessionalPirate

"They have an equal right to privacy. And little girls should not have to be in the presence of naked strange men"

Out of interest, is it also reasonable to argue that little girls AND little boys should both not have to be in the presence of any naked strange women?

Is that about protecting small children from witnessing adult nudity?

In which case why aren't all children taken into a an individual family changing room, do they don't have to experience the traumatising sight of a naked adult body?

Well yes I suppose this was the best option in the circumstances. Good job he’d taken a robe with him though because I don’t think walking through the hotel in just a towel would have been ok.

Women are entitled to a private place to change. Religion shouldn't enter the equation.

Men should not be in the ladies.
I don't care if they are a Dad, trans Doctor, pretent trans rapist, men should not be in the ladies.

What was the alternative then ? Some people don’t have a parent of both sexes. And some parents have to bring their opposite sex child swimming on their own .campaigning is great but what in the interim do you suggest

I find it interesting that some people think being in changing rooms with naked men around/the child being naked is dangerous….. so the little girl needs protecting.

isnt that the admission that men can be a leech/have very inappropriate behaviour.
And if that is the case, why should adult women accept a man around them that will potentially do the exact same to them??

I used to go swimming with my dad when I was little. My dad, brothers and I would all change in the male changing rooms until I was maybe 6 or 7 and felt comfortable enough to use the female ones on my own.
One of my brothers has a 4 year old daughter now. And again, if there's no unisex/family changing available they use the male changing rooms.
It is entirely inappropriate for a man or boy over the age of about 8 to use the female changing rooms. It's a parent's responsibility to keep their child - of any gender - safe in a changing room. What an awful man!

Easy
The child goes with the parent until Theyre about 8yo.
Then they change in their appropriate changing room.

Like it’s been the case for years and years.

That’s what I’m saying. I always went to the men’s with my dad when I was small and I don’t see anything wrong with it. In my opinion it would be ridiculous for a dad to put off getting swimming lessons for a little girl until they are older just to avoid going into the men’s changing room with them, like this poster suggested

Agree with you. I also belong to a gym/swimming pool attached to a hotel. As it happens, it has a family changing room and enclosed showers, though women sometimes bring small boys into the ladies area (notices specifically say no opposite sex over the age of 8). In your case, the man could have used the men's or he could have gone to his hotel room - though I guess his and the child's clothes were in the changing room? A member of staff presumably had to fetch them?
He was entitled and hated being called out on it - good for you speaking up.

I couldn’t care less who sees me naked. I was born naked. I for one prefer to be an open changing room, where l have space without being confined in what often feels like a “dark smelly box” either of sweat or over the top cheap perfume. And often too small for parent and child. But no reason for others to be pushed in that situation.

But surely family areas should have a mixed sex area with individual and spacious lockable cubicles.

I have not read all the pages, apologies if a dozen people have already said this.

It sounds as though he was trying to use his daughter as an access pass to a place where women would be naked. Well done to you and to the hotel for calling him out on it. I'm sorry for the child.

I can see both sides to be honest and I think both are right. I wouldn’t be happy if I was midway through getting dressed and essentially naked and a man walked in. But if I had daughters (boy mum) I wouldn’t be happy with them going in the men’s changing room. In my opinion, in this situation the best option would be to wrap a towel around the child and return to the hotel room (if I was swimming in a hotel I was staying at with my boys I’d do that automatically so I could put them straight in the shower). Really all leisure facilities need either a family changing room with cubicles or the male/female changing area need to be cubicles only with no communal changing areas.

You seem to have totally missed the other poster's point. He/she was querying why this little girl's rights not to get changed in front of men trumps the rights of all the women in the female changing room and possible girls as well as women?
The OP has said that the male changing room was empty and that there were cubicles and that they were hotel guests so could easily go to their private room. The women (and any girls) had to stay in the female changing. It's totally inappropriate of this selfish man to think that he and his daughter can impose themselves on a group of adult women but that it is inappropriate for his daughter to possibly encounter a man when accompanied by her father.

I can't believe there's 7% of people that think it's acceptable for a unknown man with a young DC to enter an open female changing space where often women are in some form of undress. Bonkers. There was even a bloody sign!

When I was little swimming with my dad he took me in the male changing rooms and into a cubicle

Yes they have equal right to privacy which is why a girl with her father should get her privacy, protege yes by someone who loves her, in the changing room where HE belongs.

And yes little girls should be seen in the men’s changing room if they’re with their dad. Otherwise it’s men in the women’s rooms where other little girls are and that space is not for them.

What happens if 10 such men are with their little girls? Do they all get to go where women and other little girls are changing?

How can’t you see that it’s just best that men take their daughters in the men’s with them and save the discussion about variables?