For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

I would be raging about that. As a young woman going through puberty I would have hated it. I have a 9 year old: not comfortable with him using the men’s on his own, but absolutely not suitable to take him into the women’s

We don't know. They don't wear badges. That's why we keep them all out.

I don’t think it’s comparable to racial segregation

@Drfosters There’s an age appropriate debate to be had, and it’s so sad that it’s informed by the concern about predatory males, when actually most children are at risk from someone known to them or in their family .I personally don’t think 8 is too young and expected my 8 year old girls to get changed alone. But again that’s the argument for provision of 3rd spaces to allow parents who don’t feel comfortable to have an choice.

Obviously NOT unreasonable.

I'd be concerned about your friend. She sounds very odd.

It is easy to cover a young child with a towel as they change, there are cubicles, there is no reason for an adult to be in the wrong changing room.

But also she brought her 11 year old son and nephews in to a women's changing room? I can't imagine that either the women or girls using the changing room or the 11 year old boys would be comfortable in that situation. All the commentary on this is about the risk to women of men being in their spaces but 11 year old boys are going to be very uncomfortable in that situation.

I do think that this illustrates why cubical based changing rooms are far better. As there is flexibility and many people just want privacy when getting changed.

Yeah, so do I. BUT... we have to take an approach that minimises risk. For example, our gym has fairly large open plan changing spaces in both men and women's so it would be relatively difficult for a man to corner a child unless it happened to be super quiet in there. We'd also explained to our children from a young age that they have complete body autonomy and no one can touch them or cme into their space without their permisson. We've tried to make ti clear they can shout/run etc if they need to and that's okay. Obviously, the concern is that in the moment an 8 year old simply isn't mature enough to do that, but 've always felt that we have to try give them the tools and then mitigate risk, but we can't remove it complete. When DS started using the change room, i used to lurk outside and I would sometimes ask a male member of staff or a man I knew, to go in and check on him if he seemed to be taking too long (it was because he couldn't get his lock to work a few times!). But I still feel that yes, he had to use that space.

I concede I might have felt differently in a male changing space where I felt there were more direct opportunities for men to be alone with him.

He was a hotel guest so in his own room.

Exactly, I find the friend quite concerning.

Not only being fine with men in women's changing rooms but taking 11 year old boys in to women's changing rooms. That will be uncomfortable for all concerned.

the little girl will see her dads body when he changes himself either in the hotel room or in the cubicle
its not appropriate for grown man to be in female changing area
not ideal for 5 year old girl in male changing room but I’d see that as the correct choice

i hate this notion that all men are potential abusers/ perverts so even if there had been men in the male changing room it’s a stretch to assume the girl needs to be shielded from them

In the mens in a private cubicle (which I'm sure there are) or up in his hotel room.

Quite simple.

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Yes, I am a bit older. I remember clearly when 7 used to be the cut off point at swimming changing rooms. I remember seeing signs to that effect on changing room doors. I don’t like seeing older boys in the women’s changing rooms. I have seen women bring their sons into communal women’s changing rooms even when family change is available.
I would have physically stopped a man entering the women’s changing room.
I think if you know you are going to have problems with opposite sex changing you bring a large towel with you to change by the side of the pool, like you would at the beach.

Totally agree but most places don’t have that. I don’t know what the answer is when places don’t have that facility. Expect 8 year old boys not to swim or change in car ? It is a difficult one . Difficult when child has sen too.

It's there in the OP

the men's changing or their hotel room

I'm glad someone said this ^^

Because I'm baffled.

So much typing and explanation for what? The OP knows she wasn't BU.

You were being reasonable. You did actually the right thing. It’s the hotel and their system that needs to be approached. The child should never have been brought in at that time of day.

Children under 8 who need supervision changing need to go into the changing room of the gender of the adult responsible for them.

A grown man can not go in the ladies, and a grown woman can not go in the men’s.

It’s really quite simple.

Not a problem for women to solve

You would
Have used the disabled changing?

Oh dear

She would be with her dad. What do you think would happen?

I have never been to a pool that has open plan changing rooms. Every one I've visited has cubicles. Some are in separate men's and women's areas and others are just one big area but no one sees anyone else changing, in fact at our local pool there are signs up requesting people to remain in at least swimwear outside the cubicles. There is 9/10 times a family changing room as well which avoids this type of issue. Is it area dependent or something? Attending an adult only swim session with a child is another issue altogether.

So you think it’s a form of abuse bringing an infant male into female changing rooms or vice versa . Sorry but I’ve never heard anything more ridiculous in my life. What arrangements are people supposed to make ? Not every child has a parent of both sexes. And lumping children and trans people together is a stupid suggestion too.

She knows and you know , but plenty of people on this thread don’t seem to know ! Judging by a lot of the posts

A child with SEN is disabled and therefore entitled to use the disabled changing room.

If the elder two were 9 and 11 then they were more than old enough to go alone into the male changing rooms, leaving you with the small ones.