For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

To be honest, I find it incredibly uncomfortable when women bring their sons into the changing rooms.

It works both ways - there needs to be e a third “family changing rooms” option made up of large cubicles so families of any composition can change together and without encroaching on single sex spaces.

YANBU that the man shouldn't be going into the women's changing room. But it is also unreasonable for him to take her into the men's changing room. Children should never be taken into the opposite sex's changing room, it's a form of abuse. It's the parent's responsibility to make appropriate arrangements, not everyone else's to bend over backwards to accomodate them.

The solution is to have three sets of changing rooms, one for adult men, one for adult women and one for children/transpeople. If segregated facilities are needed, they should be kept segregated. I suppose the other alternative is just get rid of segregation and have it as a free-for-all that anyone can use, like they did when they got rid of racial segregation in the US.

He is a dick

To be honest, I find it incredibly uncomfortable when women bring their sons into the changing rooms.

Linked to my post re age appropraite expectations, I always think that there's an invisible, and yet weirdly obvious, line that once a boy crosses, makes him someone no one wants to have in the women's changing room. I don't think its linked to size but awareness maybe. That boy who suddenly IS noticing women and girls naked vs the one who's just running around and our inbuilt radars immediately recognise it?. I definitely started noticing DS was aware of the difference between men and women and girls in changing rooms from when he was abot 7 and I started escalating his "must learn to be independent in the changing room" lessons at that point. He was using the mens therefore before he actually turned 8.

WTF? One for children/transpeople? So it’s fine for kids to share a space with adults of the opposite sex as long as they claim a trans identity? Gosh, I can’t see that being abused at all, can you???

In the absence of third spaces, disabled spaces may unfortunately be the obvious choice….not that that’s acceptable but seeing as in many places the only changing table accessible to a man will be in the disabled space, ( or even the only changing table available full stop is in the disabled space) there is a requirement for venues to consider the needs of their disabled clients separately from the needs of their customers who need non-sexed access to kid’s facilities.

Something similar happened to me. My 5yo goes swimming and there is a mum who takes her massive teenage son to get changed at the girls changing room. The staff spoke to her but she takes no notice. I don't feel comfortable speaking to someone who clearly is an entitled ignorant so I keep reporting her to the staff. This is a kids only lesson, the only adult male that could be present on the boys changing room would be a parent.

DD had school swimming lessons in Yr1, so 5 years old. All the parents made sure the children were capable of changing independently in preparation (although the TAs did help sort hair after they had changed).

However the issue seems to be more that "men" aren't trusted to be around boys as an excuse for older boys in the women's changing rooms. I do understand that position.

I think it’s mad the amount of people saying girls shouldn’t be exposed to random naked men in a changing room. Whereas it’s fine for little boys to be exposed to random naked women in the changing rooms . A father is there to protect their child in the changing room. An adult man in women’s is highly inappropriate.

Because she's accompanied by her father who can hold a towel around her if he's concerned about privacy.

Exactly! People are saying "no way should a small girl be exposed to men changing!"....so.your answer is to make ALL the women in the female changing room be exposed instead...while they are changing?

Wtf?

A 4 year boy old would make you uncomfortable ??? Seriously ? That is just crazy . But you are entitled to your feelings I suppose. Why though? What do you think a 4 year old will do in a changing room that is threatening

The hotel are unreasonable. It is not acceptable to have communal changing rooms at all, it should all be individual changing rooms and closed showers. Surely no one actually wants to be naked with other people in this situation?

To be fair that’s age dependent, I have asked an older boy to leave a changing room before as he was hanging around waiting for his sister and staring at the other girls getting changed!

I’m not talking about older boys I’m talking about a 4 year old.

It's not about doing anything 'threatening'. Small children stare. Just in case you hadn't noticed.

I had this exact same scenario once when taking my children swimming. I walked in and there was a man getting his daughter changed in the communal ladies room. I wish I had said something but since it was at a time of the swim lessons so not many adults wanting to get changed I left it. Any adults could have gone into the individual changing cubicles.

now I’m older and more angry about this stuff I would have caused a fuss. He could have taken his daughter into the men’s and used the individual changing cubicles there.

I obviously don’t think he’s going to do anything to me. They do look though!

@Cornflakes123 i doubt that poster was meaning young boys made her feel uncomfortable…but the older they get it does become an issue, I personally think 8 to go in an opposite sex changing room is quite old these days seeing as we had girls in our primary who had started their periods at 8

Two year olds stare. Should babies/toddler who are male also be barred from the womens? Four year old girls also stare . Does that mean they are predators and perverts? I can understand people being uncomfortable with older boys but I think anyone who is uncomfortable with an infant male in the changing rooms may need therapy (not joking I’m serious because its not really normal and perhaps they have experienced trauma or something )

@Cornflakes123 i do understand what you mean, personally I think up to a certain age, kids should be exposed to all sorts of body sizes and shapes and learn how to behave appropriately .if we were in Germany or another country we simply wouldn’t be having this debate, there’s such a different attitude to the naked body.

He wouldn't have needed a ticket, he was a hotel guest. My gym/pool is also in a hotel and guests can use the facilities.

He was bang out of order and behaved with arrogance and no consideration for any women.

@Diplodocy the person quoted my post about a 4 year old when they made the comment. Agree 8 is probably about right there is a sign in the ladies in my local swimming pool advising boys over 8 should not go into the ladies.

Your personal opinion about what this man may or may not be looking at is hardly reassuring to a room full of naked women when a man bursts in on them.
If this man thinks that naked men are too creepy for his daughter, when the changing room was apparently empty, contained cubicles, and he was accompanying her, he needs to apply the same logic to himself and the adult women in the female changing room.
He was utterly selfish and entitled from the beginning to end.

Bit tricky as would mean 8 year old boy alone in the men’s changing room? I am not sure I would be comfortable with that.
I was lucky as our swimming pool had communal and separate cubicles so everyone could be reasonably accommodated so never had to face that dilemma.