For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

I would have rugby tackled him right out of the door way. No way should a fully grown man be anywhere near a women's changing room.

Especially at a swimming pool changing room where some women float around naked (I also think that's not great either, but that's another thread).

He should have taken his child to the men's changing rooms and wrapped a towel around her whilst she got changed.

If the man thinks the set up for dads who take their daughters swimming is unfair, he should lobby for family changing rooms or some other arrangement. It’s not up to women and girls to accommodate him in their single sex space and then feel guilty about it. And he has no right to get angry with women who point this out.

These are generally not private though because they always have gaps under the doors for safety reasons…hence why there are cases of men using phones to spy on people in mixed sex changing villages. I have also seen 2 men naked in a shared changing village, 1 stripping off in a a communal area by the changing rooms and 1 using the toilet with the door open. Our swimming pool covers the doors that normally you can view the pool from when the women’s swim session is on, so no, mixed changing rooms don’t work for women who normally cover up for religious reasons .

The man was out of order using the pool in no child time in first instance. One wrong thing lead to another wrong thing.

No she’s not. Her dad’s there to protect her. Nobody is protecting women and other little girls from entitled creepy men

Then he can take his daughter back to their hotel room in her cossie so she can change there.

No little girl should have to get naked in front of men or be exposed to seeing them naked.

But why not!?

I don't understand this.

There are two separate issue here:

Issue 1: Men are more likely (but not not all men, and not only men) to be a danger to women and children. Small children and women therefore need protection from men. In the case of a changing room, a man with his daughter is fine because the man is there to protect his daughter.

Issue 2: Most people do not feel comfortable being naked or undressed or vulnerable in the presence of people of the opposite sex. This is even more true for women and girls because of Issue 1 above. So safeguarding and making people feel safe and comfortable is an important reason for same sex spaces. However, small children do not, as a rule, feel any concern about being naked in front of anyone and therefore this is NOT a concern in the case of a man taking a young female child into a men's bathroom.

In general, it would be great if pools had a third, mixed changing room for this purpose. But in the situation as it was, the Dad was incredibly unreasonable!

FFS stop going in men’s changing rooms. It isn’t for you.

I don't think it's appropriate for a little girl to get changed in the mens changing room, but it's certainly not right for an adult male to go into the WOMEN'S changing room with them. She obviously wasn't old enough to go in on her own, so he should have taken her straight up to their room.

I wish pools would be built so that there is space around the side for larger cubicles that parents can use with their children.

no its not the most appropriate option
unless he or his child is disabled.

Why is she looking at naked men? Her dad tells her to close her eyes or look at the floor. Not rocket science

I’d 100% feel unsafe with a man walking into MY space while I was naked. I’d feel unsafe with it fully clothed in fact

How do you know one dad is "creepy", over several men? I'm sure he'd be more concerned helping his small child getting dried and dressed, over trying to snatch a glance at any wobbly bits.

I have two daughters who go to swimming. They both need help changing. I wouldn’t take them to a facility that doesn’t cater to children/families. You were right to flag this even though I feel bad for the little one. Her father should know better.

This. And therefore is it ok for little boys to look at random naked women ? Or should I go into the men’s when I bring my 4 year old boy swimming .

He had more than one option (men’s or own room) and yet, felt entitled to invade the women’s only space because that was more convenient to him. No. Normalise calling this out.

Yes, be polite, but you’re allowed to assert yourself in a stressful situation and people who put you in that position do not have the right to expect you to be at your most diplomatic.

#metoo, Earlier this year I objected to a visibly drunk man who made a convenience out of the women’s toilets because the men’s were “not working” (he lied - they were just further away). He was aggressive instead of apologising, all up in my face swearing about how he just needed to pee, what was the big deal, did I want him to do it here on my feet? I just kept responding: then use the men’s. Don’t come in here. Luckily we were in an airport and the police stepped in.

It’s a really aggravating form of everyday sexism, this sense of entitlement whereby the man demands to access the space because “I need to xyz, etc” but the “need” is actually a preference. The proper approach just doesn’t suit him personally in the moment.

He’s meant to take them in the men’s. Where did you think he should take them? Where do you think parents of mixed sex children take their kids?

I would mind a lot. My rights to single-sex spaces are not yours to give away.

Even if you daughter had a physical or mental disability she should be in the men’s or the disabled changing rooms if she’s with her dad

They use the changing room appropriate for the adult or the girl gets changed in the women's and he waits outside.

It is tricky , I have a disabled son who nearly ten he can't change independently. The first swimming lessons we tried when he was 7 had no disabled or family change so we had to use women's. I did feel a bit uncomfortable. Now we go to a disability swimming class which has family cubicles.

The little girl's father clearly hadn't thought it through and was so entitled to turn up outside of the designated family swimming times and just expect everyone to accommodate him. If he is that uncomfortable about taking her into the men's changing area he should have checked the changing room arrangements before visiting the pool. I just feel sorry for the little girl having such a twat for a father!

Did you think seperate changing rooms were a myth?

As a slight change in topic, I am also very interested in how many people think 8 year olds aren't capable of changing by themselves. I used to take DD swimming and it was infuriating how many women would bring boys who were obviously significantly older into the change rooms with them. These boys would often run riot around the change room and it was particularly unpleasant for the small group of slightly older girls who had a lesson around the same time.

I think the 8 year old limit is a useful one and actually, it should serve as a guideline to parents about what their childen should be able to do by then. Certainly, going quickly into a change room to get dressed alone should not be beyond a NT child at that age. I appreciate it can be a bit scary and you worry about how they would respond to certain situations, but that is part of the process of parenting them - they have to learn.

If you think a straight bloke In the women's changing rooms isn't going to take advantage of being there to get as many eyefulls as possible, you're on glue. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he engineered the "mistake" of turning up during adult swim in order to use his daughter as a fig leaf for perving at women. Being a father to a girl doesn't stop a man from being a pervert.