For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

I do think 8 is quite young to be seperated from parent, particularly boys going into the mens alone.
So I do imagine there are plenty to flunt the rule and have 8/9/10 yos in the opposite changing room. But I certainly think by 11 they should be in the correct space.

It's quite mental on another thread a mums being told to use paid childcare to avoid leaving her DD 7 outside the school for a few minutes so she can run for a train. Yet a boy just a few months older is expected to change in the men's changing room alone.

In the men's changing rooms, obviously! This really isn't complicated.

You were assertive to a man who, at best, was thoughtless and acting entitled.

At worst, he was using his DD as a means to enter a women’s changing room, when it was clear (from voices) women were inside getting out of wet swimwear.

He had other options. He could have got her dressed at the side of the pool. Many a time I’ve had to get my kids out of wet swimwear in public, e.g. on beaches. There’s ways of doing it without anyone seeing them naked. You put a towel around them. Or a child that young can be wrapped in a towel and carried back to their room.

Don’t doubt yourself for being assertive to a man. As long as you were polite.

Your friend was out of order to challenge you on it. If she’d let a man enter a room full of women, likely to be in various states of undress, that’s up to her.

However, in these days of many lone parents to kids of the opposite sex (not to mention couple parents who spend time doing things separately with their kids), swimming pool changing rooms should cater for that, e.g. a poolside shower to wash off chlorine while still in swimmers and a couple of cubicles that can be accessed without having to walk through an open changing room, with open showers. It can be as basic as curtained poolside cubicles. Not hard to install.

But if they were individual private unisex cubicles, with closeable doors, can they not use them?

Adults should not go into the changing areas or toilets of the opposite sex. If this causes problems for parents trying to change or toilet their opposite sex children then they need to either campaign to the relevant body for a family facility if its publicly owned; or in the case of a private business, leave feedback and vote with their feet.

In this case, if there was no workaround acceptable to the man that didn't involve him being in a female only space, then unfortunately his daughter would be unable to swim. That's a shame, but neither the fault of the women in the pool or their responsibility to fix.

@Gardensandparks

People need to have some common sense!

I agree. And it's common sense that bringing an 11 year old into a women and girls changing room where there are likely to be women and girls in various states of undress is completely inappropriate.

To the point that if swimming there requires doing so (if there are no unisex facilities and you won't send the 11 year old into the boys) then you need to find a swimming pool that does have suitable changing facilities for your needs.

Poor pre teen and teen girls in there having a boy walk into their space when they're likely to not be dressed. You were so selfish to bring him in there that I'm quite shocked.

@BigBlueEyes678

The little girl's comfort and safety is most important and I think he had the right instinct on this.

Does this one girl's comfort and safety override the comfort and safety of other girls who might be in the correct changing room?

It says right there in the post that the staff member told her?

You think all half naked women would be happy standing up to a man?

It’s SO simple: that space is not for them. Dont go in.

Tough one.
I see both sides.

I also live in Germany where nakedness is not a big deal and everyone just changes openly in swimming pool changing rooms here. So maybe I've become less horrified at the thought of a man in a woman's changing room...

Because it’s a hotel. Realistically, families using the pool are guests and so they can change in their room.

Totally different. The child left on the street could be grabbed within one minute.

The mum can be waiting right outside the men’s and shout in to make people aware she’s there. If the boy goes straight to a cubicle and back out I don’t see the issue.

That man is an entitled dickhead, I wouldn't even take my 10 year old and 8 year old sons into womens change room at the local pool as they might run into a female classmate and that wouldnt be ok. If we can't get a family room we wrap up and change at home even when it's freezing. Girls and women deserve safe spaces and men dont belong in women's change rooms. I do think the answer to safe spaces for all involves a rethink in how we currently make changerooms with specific single sex spaces and more seperate changerooms for singles or familes l so everyone can feel safe, but the answer is never going to be adult man in the women's changeroom.

Father here.

When DD was younger I wouldn't dream of taking her into the female toilets or changing rooms whilst I was accompaying her.

The best and only option IMO is a quick glance into the mens by dad, and then usher DD into a cubicle quickly and with minimal fuss.

I find it bizarre a man would even consider going into the females.

He could have checked in the men's.
But frankly? I. Don't. Care,
As long as a großen man stays out of the Women's

@DeffoNeedANameChange

My opinion on this isn't a popular one on MN but I think it's worse to expect a young child to change with the wrong sex than to expect a fully grown adult to change with the wrong sex.

So what about the female children in the female changing rooms who are forced to change with a male adult who is bringing in their female children?

You can't know if there are women only or women and girls in a changing room.

So even if you do believe what you've said above, you actually agree that it was wrong of the dad to bring his daughter into the female changing rooms?

It is kinder to the little girl too. If I was hunched over using a towel to cover me then turned round to find a man in the changing room the conversation would have been a lot worse. I would have been outraged and complaining loudly to staff at this point he would have done something wrong. Less awkward for all to talk before he went in. And if he didn't want to cause a scene he shouldn't have.

An adult man should not be taking his DC into the changing room that is not for his sex; end of story. I've had this with a grandad taking his DGD into the women's changing (completely open, lots of women and girls naked) and he just stood there confused, and then said, "but she needs to get changed and she's a girl". Galactic missing of the point, which is the same here.

You did the right thing OP, well done

@Didimum

Not if daughter has a physical or mental disability

Then they would use the disabled changing room, surely?

So you think a group of women, Muslim or not, should be made to feel extremely uncomfortable within a female sex changing room because a man feels like coming in for no good reason?

Exactly. The argument is totally illogical.

The issue here is that facilities are not catering for this situation. Ideally there needs to be at least one family changing cubicle. I think in this instance using the disabled cubicle would have been the best course of action.

Also he shouldn't have been given entry if he couldn't swim with a child at that time. So I think the issue would have been resolved had the company been more vigilant.

Of course a man shouldn't be in a woman's changing room.

Men know that there is a problem with other men but rather than deal with it they expect women to budge over and shut up. Women socially conditioned (your friend, I have friends like this) to put men's needs first so would rather not say anything.

You did the right thing OP, the father should have found a solution that didn't involve him using a female only changing room. The fact is he wanted the easiest solution that suited him, typical.

I love that a pp says 'as long as you were polite' given what a clearly rude and aggressive man he was. I'm all for polite but perhaps these men need to be told in a more assertive way and they'll get the message.