For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

Never come across separate sex changing. Not even in a hotel.

It’s never ‘end of discussion’ since clearly from MN posts a fair few facilities don’t chuck men with daughters out of women’s changing rooms. There’s at least one post a month on the subject.

Yes of course it is. Why wouldn’t it be? Assuming he isn’t a half wit then he can protect and her ensure she doesn’t see naked men and they don’t see her.

If it’s so awful for little girls to be round men when they’re changing, why is it ok for men to be in a female changing room where little girls are gonna be changing 🤔

Why are you so keen to defend men in women’s changing rooms?

It makes you look very unsisterly.

The naked women in the ladies would not only be uncomfortable but they could very well be unsafe with a man in there.

As far as men not having to worry about children popping in, I would say small girl children in the men's room are much different than an adult man in the women's. The sex segregation is for the adults to adhere to.

yes, there should be family changing cubicles in all pools to avoid a child being exposed to naked men because she's under 8.

I think it's really difficult for men taking their daughters swimming when there's no family changing area, so I actually have quite a lot of sympathy with him. Also think that he was probably already embarrassed and frustrated having been asked to remove his child from the pool when the staff could have quietly told him that the pool wasn't open to children earlier.

Having said that, I don't understand why a hotel guest would want to use the changing rooms instead of their own room so I have limited sympathy* as I would absolutely just walk down in a towel or robe and back to my room to change.

*Edt: apparently I have both quite a lot of sympathy for him and limited sympathy 🤔

And all the people saying a changing village is the answer- no! I have ben the subject of a man deciding to expose himself by walking to the lockers naked because he “forgot his towel”.

sex segregated changing rooms are good..small children with a parent are fine in the changing rooms of the parents sex.

Grown men should not be allowed in the women’s changing rooms for any reason - well done OP and your fellow swimmer and staff member

Not in any way defending the man but have found there can be some tensions between hotel guests and locals paying to use the facilities. They have quite different agendas. Have been on both sides.

As a guest you think “I’ve paid a fortune to use this hotel why can’t my kid go in the flipping pool when I want to”. As a local you think “I have paid for my membership get the annoying kids out of the pool it’s not their hours”.

Well done op. I'd have done the same.

My Year 6 son would refuse to go into the women's changing rooms; he'd be appalled by the very idea. Nine and eleven is way too old to be in the opposite sex space and kids that age are fine to get showered and dressed themselves in the right room. Most would find the prospect of going into the wrong one at that age to be absolutely mortifying.

This 100%. Unless we have a rule that everywhere that EVER allows kids in has to have family changing and family toilets separate from the men's and women's, each place needs a clearly displayed policy about what they expect.

There should be family changing rooms for those with young children. The dad wasn't wrong for wanting his daughter to be dried and dressed in a female area but equally it isn't fair on the women getting changed to have a man present. Personally I'm fairly tolerant if a man did this with young children in tow though because it is hard to sort out children in those kind of places as there is no real ideal situation if you have opposite sex children. I hated that I'd have to leave my son to go into men's toilets and changing areas when he was still young but starting to be too old for female areas. It is hard work and a worry.

Also think that he was probably already embarrassed and frustrated having been asked to remove his child from the pool when the staff could have quietly told him that the pool wasn't open to children earlier.

They had told him earlier. Before he went in. He want embarrassed; he was arrogant enough to think the clearly explained rules didn't apply and annoyed to find they did.

I don't understand all these posters who think a man shouldn't take a young girl into the men's?! When you have a young child , you stay with them in the changing area and can ensure they're safe.The only possible variation on this is that perhaps as the girl gets a bit older, she may be less comfortable. Certainly, from age 7 we were working on helping dd to feel confident to go into the women's alone but mostly because she didn't want to be in the men's by then. It just wasn't an issue before then.

You could have written a quarter of that to make your point OP!

Year 6 is way too old for a boy to be in the ladies. I remember boys that age being very sexually aware when I was at school decades ago imagine they are far worse now.

But would you want your 10yo DD changing in front of a strange man, or your 13yo? Because that's what is happening when Dad's enter a female changing room.... it moves the issue onto other girls.

I think you’re really only bothered by the fact that your swimming session in your fancy swimming pool was disturbed. The rest is just a convenient way for you to rant about a child ruining your evening swim. Honestly it’s all a bit of a fuss over nothing isn’t it!!?

each place needs a clearly displayed policy about what they expect.

Which the OP has explained they do have.

Why are so many people tying themselves in knots to defend this man.

You were in the right. Even if the men’s was busy she would be with her father so don’t see what the issue is here.

Dad just sounds like a perv.

It is never appropriate for a male to go into the female changing room with his daughter. When the changing rooms are single sex all males over the age of 8 need to stay out.

My dad took me and my mixed sex siblings swimming in the 80’s and we changed in the men’s. We were told to look away and go in a cubicle. Either the average intelligence of men has dropped and they don’t know how give do this simple instruction or entitlement and misogyny has risen. Wonder which it could be

I agree with this.
The man was wrong to go into a packed women’s only changing room but why places don’t offer at least one or two family changing rooms I don’t know.

At eight I was bullied by women (who happened to be with their own children) at swimming changing rooms as I was swimming with my dad and obviously couldn’t go into the men’s and so was alone. My clothes were pushed off the bench I was getting changed by into puddles and so on. Some people are not nice and I certainly wasn’t happy to let my DS go into a men’s changing room at just eight alone.

The issue is the hotel because I wouldn’t want my child walking wet through hotel in a bloody towel.
that is not a solution, it’s just failing to provide any changing facility for a father and child.

I don't think you was in the wrong op. I do think facilities should be better though. Anywhere that allows children needs to have family changing facilities. I'd like to see more private safe cubicles for everyone. I dislike gyms and spas for their open plan changing rooms that usually only have one cubicle.

If so many men find male changing rooms unsafe for their daughters then they need to be campaigning and more vocal about it putting it in the spotlight. Those same men seem to assume women want a male dad in the changing room completely not seeing the issue they are then posing of safety on other women. Those same men will also be saying not all men. But all men when it comes to their daughter.