For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

Or he could have just taken his daughter back up to his own room, if he'd actually cared. He sounds very entitled, and perhaps using his daughter as an excuse to be in the women's change room.

This is why swimming pools should be unisex changing with (if they can) plenty of cubicles. My DH takes our boy/girl twins swimming alone all the time – where is he meant to take them? Luckily we’ve never come across split sex changing rooms.

YANBU, he should have definitely gone to the mens. I wouldn't put it past some men to "misunderstand" deliberately.

Whilst in a perfect world there would be male, female and family cubicles, of course a man shouldn’t go into the women’s for the sake of his daughter. He’s getting her changed for goodness sake, no parading her around the men’s. Absolutely bonkers anyone would think otherwise - there isn’t an occasion ever where a male over 8 should be in be female changing. You 100% did the right thing.

I’m sorry, but there is no reason ever to force women to have a strange man in the changing rooms while they are naked and showering.
As a parent, it is my responsibility to make sure a place has the right facilities for mine and my child’s requirements. It’s not other women’s problem. I would have checked the facilities first.
Having a six year old son, I’m hyper aware of how unsafe men’s changing rooms are but equally aware that in a few short years he will be too old to come into the women’s changing rooms with me. The solution is not for me to use the men’s with him. The solution is to work around the facilities in a way that keeps us safe and is respectful of everyone else.
I would find out about the changing room situation first if out with any of my children of the opposite sex and then decide whether to use the facilities or not. In this situation, I’d be taking them towels and flip flops in order to come straight back to the room.

You are absolutely right and thank you for saying something. I also dislike the idea of a little girl (or little boy for that matter) having to change in front of men who are strangers. Statistically, almost all sex offenders are male so it isn't sexist to be far more cautious of male strangers than female strangers. But that does not make it right for a man to bulldoze his way into the women's changing rooms.

The men's had a cubicle so he could easily have changed her in that. And if it was occupied? Wait until it becomes free. He also had the option of changing her in their hotel room as you suggested.

Well done for speaking up as other women may not have felt safe to do so.

You would if you had been to almost any hotel leisure facilities in the UK.

You go in the correct changing room for the parent's sex not the child's. End of discussion.

Otherwise everyone would be in the women's apart from men on their own.

I remember when DDs used to have swimming lessons at a private school and a dad got short shrift from the mums about coming into the girls changing rooms. Some mums were getting changed themselves after the baby and toddler class. The swimming club put up signs on the door after.

where had they left their clothes before they got in the pool?

They must have originally got changed in their room otherwise he would have had to ask staff to fetch their clothes so he had absolutely no reason to be going into the female changing rooms. Best case he's an idiot who didn't think, more likely he was a creep who wanted to walk in on women naked because when you stay in a hotel with a pool the normal procedure is to change in your room and use the provided dressing gowns. You absolutely did the right thing.

You are 100% right. If she's with him she gets changed in the men's. Once she's 8 she does in the women's herself.

In the OP's scenario, the hotel room or in a cubicle in the men's changing room. Whatever the answer is, it does not involve a grown man going into a space with naked or half dressed women. And before anyone says it, I know they have male cleaners but there is usually fair warning when they arrive.

Well, he behaved in an entitled way from the beginning really, didn't he? Very few men I know would have tried to enter the women's changing rooms, regardless of whether they had their daughter with them. There was an alternative choice available (taking her to his hotel room) and that should have been his first and only choice. I do agree though that leisure establishments really need to think this through better, though.

My friend did this the other way round took her little boy into the men’s! The men went mad! And she was told off by staff - she recounted it to me as very unfair I nodded along to be polite but agreed with the men and staff - she’s usually normal but is a real tiger mother about her sons blinded her judgement.

there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Why on earth was the kid let in in the first place then?? Stupid. But no, the dad shouldn’t be in the women’s changing room. If it’s a place welcoming to kids (doesn’t sound it??) why isn’t there a family change?

No he shouldn't have gone in the ladies - its not like a leisure centre pool with lots of cubicles or family changing.

He was a guest in the hotel, he should have just put his robe on and headed up to his room. Although - the staff should not have allowed him in the pool in the first place when there is designated time for children.

THE MENS!! Isn't that the rule everywhere? Every pool I've been to says kids change with whatever parent in that changing room till they're 8 then on their own in the one for their own sex after that? I can't see it being controversial that she would go in the men's with him

Where is he supposed to take them? In the men’s of course - assuming your twins are under 8.

The rules are clear and simple on this.

Once your daughter is 8 she should be able to manage herself in the women’s changing rooms. Hopefully you and your husband is preparing both children to independent dress and undress themselves.

In the meantime if fathers are very worried about men ogling their daughters then 1) take a large towel and use it to shield daughter, and 2) it would be great if they would challenge all the policies that allow men into women’s spaces. Because if they don’t help out on this issue then their teenage and adult daughters will be exposed to men whilst in a state of undress.

You were 100% right and thank you (and the woman who backed you up and the staff member) for calling this out.

It is not for women and girls to step aside if a situation isn’t right for a man, even a man with a daughter. He should check out the changing situation beforehand and make suitable arrangements.

As it is, he sounds like a cheeky piss-taking bugger.

Anywhere allowing children to swim would ideally have thought about this scenario and provided family changing spaces.

Unfortunately loads of places don't. I always take hooded swimming robes and flip flops so the kids can pop those on, take off wet swimming gear then go back to the hotel room.

In this scenario going back to the hotel room was the best option, followed by dad taking daughter into the men's. He is there with her to keep her safe - worst comes to worst she changes in a shower or toilet cubicle with him outside the door and he tells her to shut her eyes while he carries her out past anyone else who is changing.

No grown man should be going in the female changing area.

No neither of them is disabled. Why wouldn’t you want to use the men’s?

Presumably because most families using the pool are hotel guests and can change back in the comfort of their rooom.

What does he do when he's out with her and she needs the loo? Take her to the women's? Obviously he should take her to the men's with him until she's able to go herself. When my son was little I didn't go in the mens with him. He came in the women's with me.

Not if daughter has a physical or mental disability.

Then many women and girls would be excluded. The Somali ladies attending the women-only swim session at my local pools, in their burkinis, would not be able to use a mixed sex changing space.

But this is a hotel pool, not a leisure centre.

Then the disability facility is available.

This is not complicated, stop making it out to be.