For stopping a man taking his daughter in swimming pool changing room?

[Anotsolittlemermaid]

I am a regular user but changed name for this as I’ve spoken to a few people about it so it could be outing. I apologise it’s quite a long post but couldn’t cut it much shorter as context is needed.

I have a monthly subscription to a gym with a swimming pool that’s part of a hotel, on a Wednesday there is women’s aqua aerobics from 7-8 then adult only time from 8pm till 10pm.

Yesterday evening I got to the pool at about 8.15 after aqua aerobics and there was a man who was just arriving at the pool with his young daughter who was about 4/5.

He was being quite annoying letting her disrupt people by jumping in where people were swimming, getting in the path of other swimmers, throwing floats used for aqua across the pool and he was picking her up and throwing her.
The little girl was shrieking and screaming and a few people gave annoyed looks over at him but he carried on getting in everyone’s way.

In the end after about 20 minutes a member of staff came over and asked the man to leave the pool as children’s hours had finished, he argued a bit saying he was trying to tire his daughter out so she would sleep but the staff member was firm and said there had been two sessions of children’s hours for 2 hours at a time earlier in the day that he had been welcome to use but people who wanted to swim properly deliberately avoided them and came later.

The women’s changing room was still busy after aqua and it was mostly women swimming in the pool who had stayed after aqua to continue swimming. The changing rooms are right next to the pool so you can hear when people are in them. The men’s seemed empty but the man and his daughter were also hotel guests so he could have wrapped a towel around her and gone back to the room. He had towels and a hotel robe for himself with him.

When he got out of the pool he put the robe on but took his daughter by the hand and walked towards the women’s changing room obviously intending to go in.

The changing room is open plan with only one cubicle, it had 8 showers, 4 are in cubicles but the other 4 are open, when I had undressed before swimming the changing room had been busy with lots of women using the showers and changing after aqua, there were obviously a few women still in there as I could hear chatting and the hairdryer going.

I had been swimming lengths at the edge of the pool opposite the changing room entrance so when I saw him heading to the women’s I called out to him “sorry but that’s the ladies and it’s busy, you can take your daughter to the men’s I’m sure it’s empty or can you not just put your towel around her and go to your room?”

The man glared at me and said he wasn’t taking his daughter into a room where men might be undressing and he had taken her into changing rooms before where no one had ever had a problem.

I said it was more likely they did have a problem but didn’t feel comfortable saying so, I was getting angry at this point so I said I’d go and get the member of staff to see what he said.

The man obviously knew the staff member wasn’t going to approve this and started ranting about how awful it was that first his daughter had been asked to leave the pool and now he couldn’t even get her dry and dressed again because of busy bodies sticking their oar in. Another women who was swimming and had overheard backed me up that it was completely inappropriate and no one over 8 is allowed in the opposite sex changing room. The man wasn’t happy but wrapped his daughter in the towel and took her his hotel room as I’d suggested. As he was wearing the robe I have no idea if he had planned to use the women’s changing room to shower and get changed himself or not.

I hate confrontation but the other women thanked me for saying something, I spoke to the staff member when I’d finished my swim and he agreed that the man should have used the men’s changing room where there was a free cubicle. He said he’d been cheeky enough bringing his daughter during adult hours when he’d been told earlier he wouldn’t be allowed when he’d asked about it.

I assumed most people would agree with me but my friend said I was completely out of order, she said the little girl was the one who was important and it was much safer and more appropriate for her to get changed in the ladies, she said most mums would be understanding about a father bringing his daughter in and could have got changed under a towel, when I mentioned he had also been in the pool and was possibly planning on getting undressed himself she said “well no one has to look if they don’t want to”
I didn’t want to keep discussing it with her as we had argued before years ago about her bringing her 11 year old son and nephews into ladies changing rooms and I realised she was the wrong person to mention it to.

I also mentioned it to DP and he said that I was right to stop the man going in the ladies but he equally feels uncomfortable when men bring their daughters in, he also swims and said the previous week a little girl had been running naked round the changing room whilst her dad was looking at his phone and he would never allow his daughter to do that as you just don’t know what other men are thinking.

There are no family changing rooms as it’s not really a kids pool with it being attached to a gym and it’s mainly set up for members comfort. The majority of people who bring kids are hotel guests who have rooms.

I don’t feel IABU really but after hearing my friend and DP’s opinion I just wondered what others thought about it. Was I wrong to suggest the man takes his daughter into the men’s changing room? On this occasion a cubicle was free but if it hadn’t been then do some people really think that women should be expected to get showered and undressed in front of a man when he could take her into the mens changing room?
I’m just interested in others thoughts.

There is also a disabled changing room but only one and in my opinion it’s wrong to take that over if you don’t have a disability.

"I think it's worse to expect a young child to change with the wrong sex than to expect a fully grown adult to change with the wrong sex."

Why would this be? The young child likely doesn't care or understand and most adults don't care about the child either but they most likely will about the adult being in the wrong sex space.

'A 4 year old girl is at more risk surrounded by men getting changed than a room full of fully grown women with one dad who's there with his daughter. Common sense.'

How is a young girl, getting chased in a cubicle within a men's changing room with her dad present constantly at risk of anything? In a women's changing room at an adult only time, many women will be naked within their own changing room. Do you honestly think it is appropriate for a man to suddenly turn up in the middle of them?!

@Anotsolittlemermaid YANBU and good for you for standing up for the women. I would have said something to him in the swimming pool if he kept disrupting my swim and that of other adults. Your friend is bonkers btw. It's always standard swimming changing room etiquette that children over 8 change in the room of their own sex. An 11 year old boy should be capable of showering himself, barring special needs.

OCYANBU - Of course you are not being unreasonable. But the whole set up of the building seems not fit for purpose. The should be provision for such eventualities including a family locker area which foes not involve going through a single sex changing room.

But as this is not the case, l see no reason why the disabled changing room cannot be used. Would anyone else be harmed? The use would be very brief. It is not like using a disabled parking space, which would inconvenience others for a longer term.

The man in question does sound very confrontational though.

It wasn't a room full of naked men though and there were cubicles or the option of using their own hotel room. Why do people make things up?

Well what exactly do you think the women are at risk of?

Wtaf?
Of course not unreasonable!

Anyone who's got a kid in swimming lessons will know that the kid comes into the adult's appropriate area until they're 8, when they change in the area appropriate for their own sex!

It's up to the dad to keep a 4 year old safe in the men's. If he thinks men are so unsafe that that simply cannot happen (he may have a point?) then there's absolutely no logic in letting one of these unsafe creatures (him) into the women's.

It is a similar set up to our local pool except there are more children who use ours. It is really clear: children under 8 go in the changing room with their parent, so if it is a girl with her dad then she goes into the mens. Over 8, they have to get changed in the changing room of their own sex, by themselves if their parent is of the opposite sex. I went to that pool for years and all parents stuck to the rules without complaint. If the dad isn’t comfortable taking his daughter in to change where men are, then why does he think it is appropriate for him to go into the women’s? A lot of children had towel ponchos so it was a bit like getting changed at the beach.

well done for speaking up. The swimming area needs a family cubicle. Women shouldn’t have a man in their showering and changing area. He was an entitled bully. He had ignored the kids hours. He was going to ignore women’s right to not have a man in their changing area. Tell the gym to get a family changing cubicle

Exactly this. Family changing rooms. I've never been to a pool that didn't have them.

'safer'!!

The child was with her father - she's perfectly safe in the men's.

Of course it's inappropriate for an adult man to go in the women's changing rooms, no matter who he is escorting.

Yet another entitled parent, they had no right to be there in the first place as kid's splash time was over and this was an adult's only space. His daughter is not more important than the multiple women who need a safe space to change and have every right not to get change and showered in front of a man. This modern notion that the needs/wants of a child are more important than everyone else and other people just have to put up with them in adults only spaces is ridiculous.

I've been to hotel pools that have been marketed as spas but kids have been allowed to enter and splash around, completely ruining the experience. If him and his daughter broke the rules, it is absolutely fair enough that they walk back to the room in their swimming gear, I'm sure his daughter will survive the ordeal. How dare he encroach on a women's changing space. Well done for standing your ground, many people wouldn't feel confident to do so.

The other women and female children? Invasion of their privacy, dignity - not being able to change in the open unless they want him to see them half-naked (or fully naked)?

Isn't that enough?

The 4 year old with her dad can go in the cubicle with him, they're 2 people. A whole changing room full of people can't obscure themselves from him though.

There are no circumstances at all where it’s appropriate for an adult male to go into the women’s changing room, cubicles or not. He should take his daughter into the men’s. I used to go into the men’s with my dad when I was little, my husband takes my girls into the men’s changing rooms. If men feel uncomfortable with a little girl in there they can simply wait until she leaves or get changed under a towel.

I would have thought this - surely in a hotel most people towel dry and then go shower in their room? Why would you even bother with the pool change rooms?

He sounds seriously thick. First of all as if it’s anyone else’s problem that he wants to tire his child out before bedtime. Secondly the men’s changing room is without a doubt where he should be going with his child. How could he think it was ok for him to stroll into the women’s. So strange and inappropriate.

But perhaps the OP’s gym should turn its disabled room into a shared space like mine, if capacity allows. It would be a solution to the problem. The point is, disabled people and families have similar requirements from changing rooms, so sharing facilities in this way can be a practical solution to ensure everyone has what they need. It seems a shame that a disabled changing room could be lying empty all day while a family with their own valid needs is struggling.

I wouldn't have a problem ifnit was cubicle changing, but your description sounds like women would potentially be naked in the public area/open showers? So hard no. Largely because this man sounds like a bit of a dick and a shit father, when did getting a child stupidly hyped up and screaming with excitement at gone 8pm ever result in them settling down for bed easily?? And he shouldn't have been there at the adult time at all.
Although tbh I think pools that have facilities like this aree shit, I'd never use them as a single person and would change in the toilet in preference. But they are really rubbish for parents with the opposite sex child, there should be family change rooms, or preferably just 100% cubicle changing areas.

So for everyone who thinks it’s fine for this man to go into the women’s changing room - do you have a number in your head for how many men can be in the women’s changing room?

On this occasion it was one but potentially there is an unlimited number of men who want to go into the women’s changing room with their DDs.

By your friend's logic, she should take her son and nephews into the men''s.

Why does she not do that, I wonder?

No different to a woman taking her young son swimming. She and he change in the women's changing room. She doesn't disregard her own sex and use the men's changing room. Adult males are not acceptable in women only spaces and if dad doesn't like it, he should have thought about it before swimming.

Men can lobby for separate parent/child cubicles. Women are exhausted enough defending their own space.

There have been normal mores of behaviour around public changing rooms and lavatories for all of my 62 years. Under eight year olds go with their parent into the facility designated for the parent's sex. Over eights go into their own designated changing room/ loo. The only time that this rule might waiver is for a disabled young person when , in the absence of facilities there might have to be some leeway.

Well done op sick of these entitled men imposing on women's spaces.

In some places, the third space is the joint disabled / baby / small child space. It makes a lot of sense, actually. A large, lockable space, with toilet, low sink, bench, and sanitary disposal.

Well... if the alternative is a little girl having to look at random naked men, surely the question answers itself?

Given the lack of family changing room your suggestion that he take her back to the room was the right one imo, OP.

Tbf I wouldn't think it was unsafe. I mean, assuming there were potentially multiple naked women in the the ladies, they wouldn't have been made unsafe by the man being there, just uncomfortable.
Same in the men's, if it is an open plan changing room so the expectation is that there will be fully naked adults getting washed and changed (bleugh) they shouldn't have to worry about children popping in unexpectedly.