AIBU for standing my ground on this wedding issue

[WisteriaGardens]

Hi all, just looking for a little bit of insight/advice. Apologies in advance for the length of the post.

My partner and I are engaged and in the early stages of wedding planning. For background: we are both technically catholic and so are both of our families, however, none of us are practicing at all. So, I was surprised when my partner brought up that he wanted to get married in a church. I pushed back on this at the time with a variety of reasons including, neither of us being religious (he hasn't been to mass outside of having to go with school when he was younger), I have a lot of issues with organised religion generally, I prefer humanist ceremonies as they focus more on the couple. Just to name a few of my points.

The only reason he could give for a church wedding was that his parents had a church wedding and he sees it as traditional. I told him that if I believed for a second it was that important to him I would absolutely consider it and probably do it, however, as he hasn't been to church the entire time I've known him (despite there being a church a 2 minute walk from our house) I felt he was requesting it for the wrong reasons and it wasn't enough to make me compromise on my strong feelings against getting married in a church. I thought we had put the issue to bed because in the months since that conversation he didn't mention it again, didn't start attending mass to show that it is important to him and while visiting venues we've been talking in terms of the entire day being held there.

On Sunday we went to his parents for dinner and after the meal his mum asked me if we had decided where we were getting married ie, ceremony at the venue or in a church and I responded that I think it will all be at the venue as it's more convenient and I have no interest in a church wedding. I mentioned that my partner would like a church wedding but that I felt it didn't make sense as neither of us are practicing catholics. His mum genuinely didn't seem bothered either way as she is actually protestant but was married in a catholic church because it was what fiance's dad wanted, despite her own parents being unhappy with the decision.

However, his dad then piped up and started ranting on about although he didn't attend mass he still felt it was important to be married in the church and felt it was more special for the wedding to be blessed by god and really put down the idea of "just a legal marriage". I bit my tongue so as not to embarrass my fiancé and cause a row. He then said "What about when you have kids? Will they be raised catholic?" I responded that it didn't make much sense to me to raise potential children as catholic when we are not practicing catholics ourselves but that fiance and I would discuss it if we have children. His dad glanced at my fiance and said "I'd be putting my foot down about that". That comment absolutely enraged me and I did snap back "You don't get to put your foot down and neither does fiance". At that point fiance agreed and told his dad to drop it.

It's now caused a massive row between fiance and I which ended with me telling him that he's a hyopcrite and so is his dad to be making such an issue about a religion they don't follow in any way, shape or form. I'm also raging that his dad felt he had the right to try and intimidate me at the dinner table to get his way when our wedding and how we raise any children we might have are nothing to do with him!

I have compromised in regards to the wedding. I'm shy and self conscious so the typical big wedding has never been appealing to me but I knew it was important to my fiance and what he'd always envisioned so I've jumped on board with that, and have been happy to do it for him so with this church thing I just don't think I can concede.

Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated as I'm so angry just now I can hardly think.

Perfectly put

Please don't give up your name if you don't want to. That's not a compromise, it's a capitulation. Compromise means that neither party gets exactly what they want and instead they both get something they can live with. A compromise would be to double-barrel, or to use his name only socially but keep your own professionally.

Just saw your post and have just addressed what you said to another poster. I totally agree with it being disrespectful.

I despair! Did you not read what the FIL said about “putting his foot down”?

I would turn it around on your husband. It is not all on you to find solutions. You don't want a church wedding. He might or might not want a church wedding. What is his solution? He would also need to do all the research etc if it is a church wedding. You will also need to do a marriage prep course in a catholic church prior to getting married. Is he happy to do that? I say this as a suicidal catholic that goes to mass most Sundays (husband believes more... But I wanted a catholic wedding)

Could you do both? Do the church ceromony and do humanist vows at the reception. Having attended numerous Catholic weddings there are loads of passages which are quite nice.

There must be some way to compromise on this. Having to ‘stand your ground’ on the wedding is not a place I’d like to be.

His Dad sounds like a prat.

If you are in Scotland that adds a whole other dimension to this. I'd really go and have a proper chat with your fiance and both get a chance to talk. Somewhere off home turf. I agree with other posters that you've got a whole lifetime, hopefully, of choices to make and how you make them together is crucial for that. Any niggles now, don't ignore them.

I think, paradoxically, this is one of the things the Church can get right - couples counselling pre marriage. How you talk about finance, sex, children and yes, religion.

My husband wanted a church wedding despite not being a regular church goer. He felt the vows were more meaningful if said in a church. I had not strong views either way and so I agreed to a church wedding and am glad I did as it did feel very special and sacred.

Please don’t give up your name if you don’t want to. No decent partner would force you to by making you feel guilty. Hell I even know one couple where the guy took her name!

Good on you for sticking to your beliefs, you have not hidden them and are able to explain and defend your arguments. Your fiancé does not seem able to do the same, maybe he isn’t good with words or maybe he is willing to compromise to please his father, this would concern me going forward.
This is not a situation where a compromise would work as it is an either or. Keep talking is all you can do. If he had told you about the pressure from FIL you would have come at this from a different point.
I did wonder if you were from the west of Scotland, there is nothing less ‘Christian’ than a bigoted male whether RC or Protestant whose attachment to the church is more about history, football and sectarianism than belief. One of the reasons why, like you, I am dubious about organised religion.

Catholic Churches won't usually perform a 'blessing' in the way that Anglican churches will. The process in a Catholic church is called a 'convalidation' and makes the civil marriage 'valid' in the eyes of the Church. It's the creation of a new, 'valid' marriage, which means accepting that your civil marriage was not valid.

Good for you OP. Trust your gut, this is horseshit.

This nails it. I would be thinking long and hard about what you want from this relationship going forward. You have compromised already , your name, and I assume any future DC? The issue is your FIL, and quite possibly your DP don't see this as a compromise but “ tradition”. Your DP is probably not as different to your FIL as you may have assumed, and this will be more apparent after you are married/have children.

I am not saying you need to leave the relationship necessarily. You do want to think about confronting these differences now rather than later, perhaps through counselling?

Better than simply “ compromising “ all the way until you simply can’t years down the line.

@WisteriaGardens is it OK if I send you a PM?

I don't know about your other wishes, but you need to know when to compromise, when to give in and when to put a foot down.

Absolutely!

I think it's possible to not be a practicing member of any religion but still believe in God and want to get married etc in a religious building. Its not all or nothing but you seem to be making it that way (if you don't go to mass every Sunday then you shouldn't get married in a church).

However you should get equal say in your own wedding and it sounds like your fiance is not interested in compromise on any matters eg size of guest list and is not interested in hearing your views and discussing them and coming to the best solution for you as a couple. And that does not bode well for the relationship in general.

And his father was entirely out of order to speak to you like that, telling his son to put his foot down about how to raise future children is overstepping, interfering, rude and sexist.

Yeah so that's the thing, I've been clear about my feelings on this our entire relationship so if that didn't sit right with him what was he doing proposing to me without even broaching the subject?

And absolutely, if he had come to me saying his dad was getting on his back and was looking for help from me this would have panned out very differently.

Yep the whole thing here is embarrassing. And I've never seen fiance or his dad show any passion towards religion, football on the other hand...

Then I'd turn up at your next meeting with FIL wearing a Rangers scarf talking about your season ticket. Because I am an arse and would Love the reaction.

But. This bit

I have conceded on giving up my name when I don't want to, as well as the size of wedding so I genuinely do care about my fiance's wants and feelings and have compromised.

FFS no more compromises. (I would take this back too because it is Fils name and I'd be doing precisely nothing to please him)

I'm with you OP. My husband is an atheist and I grew up Catholic. My family is catholic and religion is very important to my mum (goes to mass every day). My husband said he would get married in a Catholic church if it was important to me but I didn't want to put him through that (in NI the priest requests that you have to go to weekly marriage courses etc). I'm not a practicing catholic and lean more towards being an atheist myself so it just felt unnecessary and hypocritical. We therefore got married at our venue. My mum was disappointed but she supported us. She was also disappointed that my children aren't being brought up Catholic but again supports us and doesn't make us feel bad for our choices (though I've no doubt she's praying for us every day). It's something you and your husband should decide and no one else. If he doesn't go to church then religion can't be that important to him.

OP, this is a huge red flag.
His behaviour, his fathers, the fact that he has masked his views and the fact that you have just had an ugly ringside seat to the misogynistic pig who has reared him.

He has shown you that he actually listens to his pig of a father.

I don't know if I could be around such a pig having been referred to in such a disgusting manner.
This is your future husbands background and he takes note of his father.
Please do not think his fathers behaviour is in the least bit normal...it isn't.
He's a rude misogynistic pig.

If you were my precious daughter I would be saying to have a big rethink.
He is NOT whom he has shown himself to be.

Do you really want to end up with a man like his father?

The wedding is becoming a bit of a side issue her Op because I'd be far more worried about your partners need to keep in his Father's good books. It's obvious his DF has been talking him into a Catholic wedding for some time and he's going to be just the same about Baptisms, going to a Catholic school and his DGC being raised in his church. Your DP may say it's just the wedding but I can see this being a problem in the future Op, if your DP isn't willing to stand up for your views now then how can you trust he'll do it in the future?

You stated that you compromised by agreeing to a big wedding. It now seems that your fiancé's idea of a big wedding means a church wedding. If you are not particularly religious and not bothered about being married in church, why would it matter to you if you did agree to a church service? Big venue weddings can be just as stressful as a religious one.
Or is it that you don't want to "concede" over this and be seen to "give in" by his father?
You need to have a sensible discussion with your fiancé before any firm arrangements are made. If you are both conflicted over the wedding, it won't make for a happy day.

YANBU, your FIL was being a dick, and church weddings are terrible if you're not actually religious. My cousin had a church wedding although she's not really religious but just because the local church was picturesque and a romantic setting... The minister wanged on for 30 mins about god and bored everyone senseless, not to mention it was awkward for my cousin because she knew she didn't believe a word of what he was saying. Tell your partner he'll regret a church wedding because this is exactly what will happen if you get married by a clergyman, it's part of the deal.