AIBU for standing my ground on this wedding issue

[WisteriaGardens]

Hi all, just looking for a little bit of insight/advice. Apologies in advance for the length of the post.

My partner and I are engaged and in the early stages of wedding planning. For background: we are both technically catholic and so are both of our families, however, none of us are practicing at all. So, I was surprised when my partner brought up that he wanted to get married in a church. I pushed back on this at the time with a variety of reasons including, neither of us being religious (he hasn't been to mass outside of having to go with school when he was younger), I have a lot of issues with organised religion generally, I prefer humanist ceremonies as they focus more on the couple. Just to name a few of my points.

The only reason he could give for a church wedding was that his parents had a church wedding and he sees it as traditional. I told him that if I believed for a second it was that important to him I would absolutely consider it and probably do it, however, as he hasn't been to church the entire time I've known him (despite there being a church a 2 minute walk from our house) I felt he was requesting it for the wrong reasons and it wasn't enough to make me compromise on my strong feelings against getting married in a church. I thought we had put the issue to bed because in the months since that conversation he didn't mention it again, didn't start attending mass to show that it is important to him and while visiting venues we've been talking in terms of the entire day being held there.

On Sunday we went to his parents for dinner and after the meal his mum asked me if we had decided where we were getting married ie, ceremony at the venue or in a church and I responded that I think it will all be at the venue as it's more convenient and I have no interest in a church wedding. I mentioned that my partner would like a church wedding but that I felt it didn't make sense as neither of us are practicing catholics. His mum genuinely didn't seem bothered either way as she is actually protestant but was married in a catholic church because it was what fiance's dad wanted, despite her own parents being unhappy with the decision.

However, his dad then piped up and started ranting on about although he didn't attend mass he still felt it was important to be married in the church and felt it was more special for the wedding to be blessed by god and really put down the idea of "just a legal marriage". I bit my tongue so as not to embarrass my fiancé and cause a row. He then said "What about when you have kids? Will they be raised catholic?" I responded that it didn't make much sense to me to raise potential children as catholic when we are not practicing catholics ourselves but that fiance and I would discuss it if we have children. His dad glanced at my fiance and said "I'd be putting my foot down about that". That comment absolutely enraged me and I did snap back "You don't get to put your foot down and neither does fiance". At that point fiance agreed and told his dad to drop it.

It's now caused a massive row between fiance and I which ended with me telling him that he's a hyopcrite and so is his dad to be making such an issue about a religion they don't follow in any way, shape or form. I'm also raging that his dad felt he had the right to try and intimidate me at the dinner table to get his way when our wedding and how we raise any children we might have are nothing to do with him!

I have compromised in regards to the wedding. I'm shy and self conscious so the typical big wedding has never been appealing to me but I knew it was important to my fiance and what he'd always envisioned so I've jumped on board with that, and have been happy to do it for him so with this church thing I just don't think I can concede.

Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated as I'm so angry just now I can hardly think.

Are your reasons along the lines of you don't think it is appropriate because you don't practice religion? If so, that is a logical argument and your father sounds like he is arguing from emotion. Someone who's reasons are emotive isn't going to give any weight to logic so you may have the choice of either going along with a church wedding or having a permanently soured relationship with your FIL.

There are red flags all over this OP. A relationship is only as good as how you work together during the challenges, not how you get along when everything is fine.
It sounds as though with issues until now, you were expected to "compromise" - except there's no compromise at all and no flexibility from him.

The issue is that there seems to be no middle ground here, and that he's happier to see you give up something important than deal with the opinions of his family or friends. I'd think very hard about what that looks like when it comes to raising a family.

In your position I wouldn't give up my name, and I'd reconsider marrying this man.

This if your fiance wants a church wedding are you saying that your feelings are more important than his, not a great start for married life

Religion goes deep and pops out at odd times and in strange ways. And the Catholic Church has some very deep teachings about marriage. Your prospective FiL is really quite out of line. But you and your fiancé do need to have a real honest talk together, each trying to put yourself in the other person’s shoes. You also need to approach your local Catholic priest and ask what would be required of you in the run up to a church wedding, to help you decide if you want to go down that route. Marriage involves a lot of give and take and a lot of listening on both sides. This is a good time to start.

Marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church, and if neither of you actually believes in the basic tenets of the Catholic Church, I think it’s disrespectful for you to be married there.

No more so than for all the atheists who get married in C of E churches because they’re a nice backdrop for photos. Catholicism isn’t some kind of more intense form of religion.

??? I didn’t mention anything about C of E. I’m an American, so I don’t even know anyone who’s C of E. The OP was about whether to get married in a Catholic church, and as it happens, I know marriage is a sacrament in the Catholic Church because I am married in the Catholic Church.

Why would you think I was trying to comment on a religion I never mentioned?

So I had similar strained relationship with my in-laws but they were Serious practising catholics and part of the community. We lived in sin till we had DC and I resisted the in law pressure. My DP didn’t care. We did registry, parents only and meal afterwards. I never ever ever wanted the brudezilla meringue thing. I think your fiancée should respect YOUR wishes which are the most ethical.

You can’t just get married in a Catholic Church and it’s not just attendance. Are you part of the community? You also need to attend ‘wedding preparation’ sessions. Really?

if your fiancée doesn’t change his attitude do consider your future especially in relation to in laws. Never really got over the initial friction and kept my distance so had no relationship with them. Enough PIL horror stories on here to illustrate your future and if you have kids the distancing might be difficult.

i think most people in the UK now are not practising Christians but the country is built on Christian values and traditions. Many people value a church wedding because of the traditional values, sense of community, beauty and history. It is not unheard of for women to have a long held dream of their perfect wedding day and why can this not apply to men too?

It sounds like there is more to discuss here than just the location of your wedding ceremony!

Have you discussed whether you'd baptise your children for example? Would they do their First Communion? If the best school in the area was a Catholic one, would you send them there?

Oddly if you WERE getting married in a Catholic church this is the type of stuff that comes up in the classes.

I worry that your fiancé has different views to you and/or that he might give into pressure from your IL on these topics. You need to make sure you're singing the same tune, not just the same song.

Could you compromise and have a civil ceremony with a blessing in a church?

reading through the thread i'm concerned that you're downplaying the very real and big red flags here.

This isn't just about the wedding venue, or the name, its about how he reacts to you asserting your wishes/wants, and how he shows he values them.

I know there are always going to be butting points, but if this is one of the first real occasions you've had to assert what YOU want, and this is how he is reacting, he either needs to give his head a massive wobble, or you need to really open your eyes.

He isn't looking good from an outside perspective right now, and that isn't a good place to be starting from, because every time he pushes, and you step back, and then he steps forward, rather than inviting you back to meet him in the middle, he is taking space, and soon you'll be against the wall with no where to do, and he'll have all the control... ask me how i know?

Compromise only works if you're BOTH compromising, i'm not seeing any compromise from him atm from what you're saying, only him trying to argue you into backing down on everything you want.

OP to get married in the RC church you'd have to undergo 6 months of marriage preparation sessions with the parish priest before he would let you both marry in his church.

It involves committing to things and is a serious process. Are either of you baptised in the RC church or CofE?

I agree with PPs who say you shouldn’t police who is and isn’t observant enough to deserve to get married in church. Generally.

But it’s a whole different kettle of fish when it’s your own wedding. It’s not just a beautiful building, it’s the solemnity of the vows made before God. If A and B are getting married and B wants a church wedding when A knows B doesn’t believe and is doing it because of tradition (and doesn’t want to cause a scene with his dad?) then it becomes very much A’s business.

I think not wanting to promise things before God when you don’t believe, and know your partner doesn’t believe, really does trump tradition.

Respectfully, I disagree. Someone ‘putting their foot down’ is not acceptable in a relationship- it’s a dictatorship! The OP has said that if it meant a lot to her fiancé, and he was invested at all in the religion, she would consider it. He’s not- he has never attended church through choice, as an adult, he’s just been taken there as a child.

And on that basis she has put her own foot down!

I agree that the FIL2B behaviour was out of order and does not bode well, but she has still put her foot down!

People’s attachment to background traditions isn’t always rational but can be important. The issue needs more listening, discussion, thought and understanding. In which case he may well unpick what is pressure and what is his cultural roots, and come round to the OP’s pov. But no, she has put her foot down.

OP, in my post above, about putting your foot down, I am referring to the dynamic of the whole thing, not whether you are valid in your feelings.

I would not feel remotely connected to my own wedding if it happened in church, and would not want to do it.

Likewise I would not (and have not) changed my surname - and that’s something that affects you, not both of you, so is actually something I would be more likely to say no to with less discussion. And more so after his Dad’s behaviour: I would want nothing much to do with changing my name to join his tribe!

And as such this wedding issue seems to be far more to do with his less than healthy relationship with his Dad, and I would look more to supporting him to unpick all that.

In the end this whole issue has brought a lot into focus. I don’t think it means you shouldn’t be together but I think it suggests that it might be time to take the heat out of it, step back, remove the head to head dynamic, decide to stay engaged but spend some time reflecting, talking about what is most important for just the two of you.

I read your post and thought that it raised some red flags for your future with your fiancé. If you have children with him there is likely to be a lot more issues where his parents try to be involved in the decisions. Are you and your fiancé on the same page with how you want to raise any children, and how you deal with his parents?

As a male you sound like a massive walking red flag, it would be a mistake for him to marry you, in my opinion, If I were him I'd cancel and just stay in a relationship.

Care to elaborate your reasoning?

As a female I would say its not OP that sounds like a massive walking red flag or even an incel who has popped up to share his oh so useful opinion with us.

Catholicism isn’t some kind of more intense form of religion.

But it is also not the established church. Anyone mentioning CofE is maybe forgetting that OzP is in Scotland where it's The Church of Scotland which is the established church in Scotland.

You have to factor in sectarianism. Still not norther Ireland levels, but it’s there.

Where she is from is catholic/protestant and more importantly Celtic/rangers

Why?

I'm not Roman Catholic but I completely agree with you OP