AIBU for standing my ground on this wedding issue

[WisteriaGardens]

Hi all, just looking for a little bit of insight/advice. Apologies in advance for the length of the post.

My partner and I are engaged and in the early stages of wedding planning. For background: we are both technically catholic and so are both of our families, however, none of us are practicing at all. So, I was surprised when my partner brought up that he wanted to get married in a church. I pushed back on this at the time with a variety of reasons including, neither of us being religious (he hasn't been to mass outside of having to go with school when he was younger), I have a lot of issues with organised religion generally, I prefer humanist ceremonies as they focus more on the couple. Just to name a few of my points.

The only reason he could give for a church wedding was that his parents had a church wedding and he sees it as traditional. I told him that if I believed for a second it was that important to him I would absolutely consider it and probably do it, however, as he hasn't been to church the entire time I've known him (despite there being a church a 2 minute walk from our house) I felt he was requesting it for the wrong reasons and it wasn't enough to make me compromise on my strong feelings against getting married in a church. I thought we had put the issue to bed because in the months since that conversation he didn't mention it again, didn't start attending mass to show that it is important to him and while visiting venues we've been talking in terms of the entire day being held there.

On Sunday we went to his parents for dinner and after the meal his mum asked me if we had decided where we were getting married ie, ceremony at the venue or in a church and I responded that I think it will all be at the venue as it's more convenient and I have no interest in a church wedding. I mentioned that my partner would like a church wedding but that I felt it didn't make sense as neither of us are practicing catholics. His mum genuinely didn't seem bothered either way as she is actually protestant but was married in a catholic church because it was what fiance's dad wanted, despite her own parents being unhappy with the decision.

However, his dad then piped up and started ranting on about although he didn't attend mass he still felt it was important to be married in the church and felt it was more special for the wedding to be blessed by god and really put down the idea of "just a legal marriage". I bit my tongue so as not to embarrass my fiancé and cause a row. He then said "What about when you have kids? Will they be raised catholic?" I responded that it didn't make much sense to me to raise potential children as catholic when we are not practicing catholics ourselves but that fiance and I would discuss it if we have children. His dad glanced at my fiance and said "I'd be putting my foot down about that". That comment absolutely enraged me and I did snap back "You don't get to put your foot down and neither does fiance". At that point fiance agreed and told his dad to drop it.

It's now caused a massive row between fiance and I which ended with me telling him that he's a hyopcrite and so is his dad to be making such an issue about a religion they don't follow in any way, shape or form. I'm also raging that his dad felt he had the right to try and intimidate me at the dinner table to get his way when our wedding and how we raise any children we might have are nothing to do with him!

I have compromised in regards to the wedding. I'm shy and self conscious so the typical big wedding has never been appealing to me but I knew it was important to my fiance and what he'd always envisioned so I've jumped on board with that, and have been happy to do it for him so with this church thing I just don't think I can concede.

Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated as I'm so angry just now I can hardly think.

In regards to raising children, we have discussed it but I didn't want to go into it with FIL. I'm happy for fiance to baptise any children - that would be his right as their father. If he wants to lie in church about doing everything in his power to raise them catholic he can go for it. I went to a catholic school and would not object to any children attending one also. Even in catholic school religion was only a small part of it tbh.

Elope!

This all sounds very familiar to me. Please think twice about conceding on giving up your name. It's your name. It's not down to your husband to press his agenda on that, until you capitulate.

Anyone that genuinely respected you more than what people thought it said about him if his wife didn't take his name, wouldn't force you to give it up. It's these little things that tell you a story really, please, sit back for a bit and think it over, there is no rush. You have not booked a venue. The family can wait until an invite lands on the mat, if it does.

I have conceded on giving up my name when I don't want to, as well as the size of wedding so I genuinely do care about my fiance's wants and feelings and have compromised.

Changing your name is a MASSIVE compromise. I wouldn't call it a compromise at all personally. That actually is the most concerning thing I've read. A comproise when it comes to the wedding, to my mind, is something linked to the ay itself - where, when, who, what etc. Changing your name against your will is far more significant than whether you get married in a church, wear white or invite 200 people.

While I have repeatedly made the point on this thread that it's okay for him to want to hark back to childhood traditions, following your update, I'd say that childhood traditions are one thing... doing something purely to keep his father happy is another entirely and is really quite worrying. I think you have a potentially manipulative, controlling FIL there and that's a big concern if your future DH can't stand up to him.

Well, and more worryingly, if his DF is his model for manhood, and spousal behaviour!

Well here is an unpopular opinion- I think you should get married in the church. For some Catholics, a civil wedding isn't actually a wedding, so that's why I think your FFIL acted out that way. Another thing to keep in mind is- regardless of whether you are not practising your religion, you are raised catholic which means you have all the sacraments, and marriage in church is also a sacrament, it is perceived as a holy ceremony, and if someday, who knows, you or your FDH decide or hear a calling to go to church and start being an active catholic, you will need that sacrament of a wedding to receive communion etc.. Maybe your fiance can't explain now why he wants a church wedding, but deep down he knows it is the right way to get married- he wants to commit to you not in front of another person in the civil office but in front of God.

I would have loved to and spoke about that often before we were even engaged. I would have loved to do it just us our parents and siblings. But it became clear after we were engaged he wanted the big do and unlike this church situation I could just see it was something he really wanted so I didn't mention eloping again and through myself into the planning. It's just one day and the marriage is what I've always wanted.

Marriage is about compromise. If you aren't bothered about the religious aspect and he is then it would be kinder to let him have his church wedding. I'd be wary about steamrollering over his wishes like this so early in the Marriage.

I didn't attend church when I got married and suggested a Catholic blessing to please my Grandma. It would have made her happy. She did a lot for me. DH is actually a big atheist so said no. Fast forward a decade and my faith became a lot more important to me and I'm not married in the eyes of the church. It's a problem for me. DH and I have looked into getting married properly as even though he has his principles he loves me and will compromise. We haven't done it yet because life (especially covid) gets in the way.

Another thing to think about is whether there any Catholic schools you might want to access in future. My DC have benefitted from the faith schooling. If you've got other good schools and never intend to move then it's not a problem but in some areas people are flocking to Catholic schools.

So another one of my wishes I've just to give up on then? I didn't have a choice about the other sacrements, I was a child.

That's a shame. I always regretted not eloping. I went along with it because I wanted to make the effort stupidly for my in-laws so they'd like me. It made no difference whatsoever to our relationship or how they viewed me, so should have just done what we wanted!

This is a snapshot of your future.

Battles with FIL and dealing with a DH who says "well my dad says...I should put my foot down."

I'd be taking a break from the planning and the relationship. How much have you already compromised and this is still not enough?!

Yeah.... bollocks to that! As far as I am concerned marriage is a legal ceremony. If you sign the paperwork you are married, anyone who thinks you need to be married 'in the eyes of god' is clearly on a very different wavelength and you should not bend to those views.

But God doesn't only exist in a church. If finace wants to makes his vows before God, then he can take his God with him into his humanist service. Most humanists won't include religious words but many would allow a time of silence in which fiance could make a slient prayer asking for God's blessing. But OP deosn't seem to have any awareness of her fiance praying throughout the years they have been together.

The alternative (a church marriage) is that the OP, would end up making the most serious promises and commitments of her life using words (religious) which have no meaning or authenticity for her. That feels so wrong. Both parties in a marriage ceremony should be able to use language that is honest and truthful and aligned to their beliefs.

In Scotland there are options, other than humaist which can explicitly accommodate different faiths and beliefs.

Why is it up to you to convince DP and FIL why you shouldn't get married in Church and not for them (or actually only DP) to convince you that you should when its clear that none of them have stepped foot inside a Church for a long time to worship? If there are arguments for and against then write them down and decide between you and your DP. You don't need to justify your decision to his Parents.

@WisteriaGardens I would be inclined to ignore the clutches of the church on this thread. Individuals don’t have to follow it slavishly.

As for your name: lots of women keep their name for work but are happily Mrs for parenting and other matters. There’s always a half way house!

I would try and speak again to your fiancé because he is following his family. However as you can see from posters, this can be expected. Men don’t always open up about what they really feel. My DD went out with a man from another country who, so he said, didn’t want to live or work there. Except he did. Dad pressure was applied! He bailed out before engagement but they don’t all face up to pressure from families and they lie.

OP has compromised. On the size of the wedding, on not eloping - because all of those meant a lot to her fiance. I'd be wary about the fiance (and his dad) steamrollering over HER wishes.

OP is not a passive bystander in her wedding, she would be playing an active and equal role in making commitments that are a sacrament of a faith that she does not believe in. That might be seen as some as hypocritical.

Ex-Catholic here. I think it's incredibly disrespectful to use any church in order to get a "nicer" wedding. It's appalling and I'd be surprised if a priest would marry you both, given neither of you attend church. You realise both of you would be lying to the priest?

I would be rethinking your marriage. He's too weak to stand up to his dad. He's a hypocrite who doesn't want anything to do with Catholicism but wants you to kowtow to it for your wedding.

His father is a disgrace and I wouldn't want his involvement in my life, particularly given he's backed up by your spineless boyfriend.

So you've really resonated with me there. If I was to go along with this I would be lying in the vows and although I no longer follow the religion I do have respect for it and those who do. It feels absolutely impossible for me to stand and lie through the vows, I'd feel I was making a real mockery of something that people I know and love take very seriously and are committed to.

We are in Scotland, so that's interesting and something to look into thank you. You will maybe understand me when I say we are in Glasgow and I have a real inkling that this all has a tie to football. Which makes it even more ridiculous to me.

Would he compromise and have a civil ceremony and (later/privately) a church blessing?

He hasn't mentioned it, I will definitely bring it up. Thank you.

So what, though? DH, whom I love, wanted to get married, and wanted a big traditiinal wedding, with all of our both big families present. I however, didn’t particularly want to get married, but seeing as it meant a lot to him, I agreed. BUT, having compromised, we did it the way I wanted, in jeans with two witnesses. If he wanted to get married, fine, but my way. That’s a compromise.we both got something we wanted. He got a marriage, I got the whole ceremony over in fifteen minutes, and forgot about it again. Win win.

What you’re describing is other people railroading over your wishes.

Your fiance is afraid to be his own person. His misogynist father controls him and will try to control your marriage.

You've had 2 huge asks from your fiance that sound like he's pursuing his father's agenda, not his own, like changing your name and getting married in a church he doesn't even bother to go to. Do you want to live with his dad's views controlling so many aspects of your life and that of your future children? Do you want your life controlled by a patriarchal figure with outdated misogynistic views?

Good for you! Especially for sticking up to your FIL who frankly sounds very difficult.

My MIL (who I think would identify as religious but doesn't go to church and never mentions religion) wanted us to get married in a church from their home country. We were both not remotely religious and I didn't even speak or understand the language our wedding would have been in had we agreed (same as 98% of the guests). We'd also have had to get married several hours away from where we lived. It's odd, I can't really imagine trying to pressure someone to do that just because you'd like it?

Aside from the wedding, I'd probably be having a think about how you will manage your husband's need to appease his parents during your marriage and with other aspects of your life. Clearly they don't truly see him as an adult who should get to make his own decisions. Maybe a couple of sessions of counselling together would help get you both on the same page? From experience, having in-laws with Expectations About Things can make life quite tricky and stressful, especially if you throw poor communication and difficult dynamics into to the mix.