AIBU for standing my ground on this wedding issue

[WisteriaGardens]

Hi all, just looking for a little bit of insight/advice. Apologies in advance for the length of the post.

My partner and I are engaged and in the early stages of wedding planning. For background: we are both technically catholic and so are both of our families, however, none of us are practicing at all. So, I was surprised when my partner brought up that he wanted to get married in a church. I pushed back on this at the time with a variety of reasons including, neither of us being religious (he hasn't been to mass outside of having to go with school when he was younger), I have a lot of issues with organised religion generally, I prefer humanist ceremonies as they focus more on the couple. Just to name a few of my points.

The only reason he could give for a church wedding was that his parents had a church wedding and he sees it as traditional. I told him that if I believed for a second it was that important to him I would absolutely consider it and probably do it, however, as he hasn't been to church the entire time I've known him (despite there being a church a 2 minute walk from our house) I felt he was requesting it for the wrong reasons and it wasn't enough to make me compromise on my strong feelings against getting married in a church. I thought we had put the issue to bed because in the months since that conversation he didn't mention it again, didn't start attending mass to show that it is important to him and while visiting venues we've been talking in terms of the entire day being held there.

On Sunday we went to his parents for dinner and after the meal his mum asked me if we had decided where we were getting married ie, ceremony at the venue or in a church and I responded that I think it will all be at the venue as it's more convenient and I have no interest in a church wedding. I mentioned that my partner would like a church wedding but that I felt it didn't make sense as neither of us are practicing catholics. His mum genuinely didn't seem bothered either way as she is actually protestant but was married in a catholic church because it was what fiance's dad wanted, despite her own parents being unhappy with the decision.

However, his dad then piped up and started ranting on about although he didn't attend mass he still felt it was important to be married in the church and felt it was more special for the wedding to be blessed by god and really put down the idea of "just a legal marriage". I bit my tongue so as not to embarrass my fiancé and cause a row. He then said "What about when you have kids? Will they be raised catholic?" I responded that it didn't make much sense to me to raise potential children as catholic when we are not practicing catholics ourselves but that fiance and I would discuss it if we have children. His dad glanced at my fiance and said "I'd be putting my foot down about that". That comment absolutely enraged me and I did snap back "You don't get to put your foot down and neither does fiance". At that point fiance agreed and told his dad to drop it.

It's now caused a massive row between fiance and I which ended with me telling him that he's a hyopcrite and so is his dad to be making such an issue about a religion they don't follow in any way, shape or form. I'm also raging that his dad felt he had the right to try and intimidate me at the dinner table to get his way when our wedding and how we raise any children we might have are nothing to do with him!

I have compromised in regards to the wedding. I'm shy and self conscious so the typical big wedding has never been appealing to me but I knew it was important to my fiance and what he'd always envisioned so I've jumped on board with that, and have been happy to do it for him so with this church thing I just don't think I can concede.

Any thoughts or advice would be so appreciated as I'm so angry just now I can hardly think.

Naturally, he gets a say (as should you) in the location and the size of the wedding. It's his wedding too.

Your name is a different story. That's YOUR name. He shouldn't get a say in that. That is a bridge too far. It's very concerning, tbh.

" I could see it genuinely meant something to HIM so although I had mixed feelings over it, I was essentially happy to concede on that one. "

Does he concede on anything that genuinely means something to YOU?

I think your F is expressing what his heart/emotions want and you're thinking it should be a logical decision. Your pov is possibly more logical but equally emotionally held. You both need to properly articulate all of this. Your FIL is immaterial to all this but your F may hold some of the same feelings. Once a Catholic and all that.

This is what life is going to be like forevermore if you marry into that family. Run! Run like the wind

They bloody do judge! Not catholic but CofE vicar refused to christen my nephew because his parents weren't married and another refused to marry my daughter because "the father isn't on the scene..." (he's dead) 🤨

Sorry but that's ten different kinds of wrong! To get married in a Church when you don't believe in God! 😵 Of allllll the venues in all of the world you chose the house of God when you don't believe in it! Beggars belief

As you say, I don’t believe in god… therefore I don’t see a church as a house of god. I see it as a historical building that my family has a long time tradition of marrying in. I don’t see why it’s such a controversial choice I made when the priest who married us had no issue?
From what I’ve read, it sounds like churches in the UK are far more stringent/rigid than churches in Australia (or perhaps localised to my area).

Also, I think we have very different opinions on what is wrong. I got married in a church. Churches/priests in my area are still being sued and prosecuted for sex offenses performed and hidden by members of the church - that to me is ten kinds of wrong.

I think you should consider delaying until you can find somewhere that you're both happy with x

OP just wanted to say the way you handled the situation with your FIL was brilliant, well done to you for standing your ground in the moment. Keep that energy and don't give an inch.

I understand you want to give your fiance the benefit of the doubt for now but I'm very unimpressed with how he's responded to it all. "But it's tradition" is not a sufficient sentence. Beyond the wedding and religion issues I'd be asking him directly how he'd cope with children who weren't "traditional" in their interests or life paths.

There is a reason why so many women report that their partners have changed significantly as soon as they have gotten married or gotten pregnant OP. Up until now you have been a free agent. Once married, you will be "trapped" by him. He and his family are showing their true colours and their expectations of you to be the dutiful little woman and do as you're told. Be careful.

They want a Celtic ceremony

They're football fans. Religion and football are entwined there

As if both football and religion didn't have enough problems in themselves without combining them @justasking111

The very fact that both "men" are clearly into this kind of sectarianism would have been enough for me to avoid them in the first place, but as ever each to their own

I could have almost written your post!
Except for DH and I would both class ourselves as religious despite not going to church, for us it's about a personal relationship with God
My mum was insistent we get married in a protestant church, as I was christened protestant.
DH mum was insistent we got married in a Catholic church, specifically her local dingy one.
In the end we got married in a small non denominational university chapel, something which DH and I both agrees on as a compromise. We thought this would also make both mums happy, turned out it made neither of them happy!

So the moral of the story is, do what suits you both and politely ignore everyone else. I would say though, that to dismiss your DH's religious beliefs based on him not attending church could feel disrespectful and I would tread more gently.

Sorry, I posted before reading your updates.
I think you have bigger issues than your wedding venues. Divisive in laws can destroy a marriage if both members if a couple are not willing to put their partner first and family second. As the bible says something like 'a man leaves his mother and father and cleaves to his wife, they become one'. You need to know that in any disagreement, he will publicly put you first. You may disagree in private, but in laws need to see him put you first and respecting you in public.

@Guineapiggywiggy - because I dare to disagree with you. Tedious.

@luckylavender not at all, but you appear just name call and don’t construct an argument which seems a little ridiculous. You lept to name calling - I wasn’t the only one to comment in this regard - but you satisfy yourself however you see fit.

I gave my reasons yesterday. But I'm not really that interested.

@luckylavender oh just interested enough for ‘last word itus’, eh?!
Same here😏

I don't think it's a case of simply picking the church as a venue. You would be receiving the sacrament of marriage. You have to have been to Confession and also attend a programme of preparation to receive the sacrament. It sounds like you wouldn't feel comfortable with all that so I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. Does elopement sound good??!!

For me it's a red flag, it may just be that his father is traditional (and a bit of a bully) but there is a significant chance your fiancé is more traditional than you realise, which could be a big problem in future. Feeling he is being hypocritical will lead you to lose respect for him , which is a huge problem- you need to talk it through.

I was raised as a Catholic and attended Christian schools until College. My wife is Christian. I opted to include a priest at our wedding over 40 years ago because of my parents. Our Archdiocese called a week before the wedding to tell us that no priest would attend since we were not registered in any parish but after presenting with pre-cana documents and a dispensation from my childhood parish. I got a priest from a Christian Brothers school to attend. Fast forward years and I opted to get each of my 3 children baptized only to have the Archdiocese intervene again with stupid rules with excluded my wife from attending the baptism. Needless to say, my children were left to find and follow whatever religion they choose and I would not give the Catholic Church $.01 if they knocked on my door.
I also served 4 years as an alterboy, collected for all charity events but also had each of my parents buried from a Catholic Church in a Catholic cemetery.

OP, I think all that has happened should really be a warning sign of future conflicts to come...maybe it's all happened at a good time before you're 'tied in' and perhaps this is an excellent moment to reflect and analyze if this relationship is for you at all.
Like another PP said, what if other major decisions need to be battled out this way- that's not something to look forward to, quite stressful all the way...at this point you might have won the Battle, but perhaps Not the War.. perhaps this is a sign of Things to Come....
Maybe step back and really think hard if you want to stay in this relationship at all.

I don’t think you should get married.

one of you will be forever resentful that the other didn’t care about their opinions.

you don’t sound shy at all. I’d never speak to my in laws like that, I’d expect my partner to do it, but I wouldn’t. It shows that you are also disrespectful.

honestly leave him to find someone who agrees with his vision.

My jaw is on the floor about the surname situation. You don't want to lose your name, your link to your family, so why the hell are you going to? Tell him to grow a pair and stop being so fucking fragile. I decided to double barrel mine, I wanted both. I would not have accepted a hint of irritation from DH about not getting rid of my name.

If your FIL is so arsed about kids being raised catholic then why doesn't he put his foot down and take it up with his own son, who hasn't attended outside of school.

I think you're very foolish to be bullied into taking this man's name. I'd actually be running a mile from the whole family. He sounds like he expects to make all your decisions, backed up by his family.