The parenting crisis

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I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

@TwentySecondsLeft I just read your post and I'm shocked. That is a disgrace. I think it will depend where you live. For my friends in Wales it was a 2 year process and was all consuming. I'm in Switzerland and it took 6 months but we had a lot of reports (creche, pre school) and it was obvious really during the observation meetings.

My sons nursery wouldn't use the word bad for behaviour because it could affect their self confidence, some of the same kids now are absolute little bstards and upset the class constantly, or everything is told its some sort of mental health or developmental issue, and I say this as a mother of an autistic child, some of them in his class are literally just little gbshites and do whatever they want cos they can get away with it.

I kicked off with my mum all of twice in my entire life, the way she then kicked off at me made me stop in my tracks and I didn't do it again, kids need to have a certain amount of respect for their elders.

Personally I think ‘gentle parenting’ has a lot to blame for it. It might work for some children but others need a firm no. I think it will create a generation of narcissists who can’t function being told no in the workplace or in their personal life.

Children need a parent figure to feel safe, not a parent trying to be their best friend.

This is part of the problem too. Schools have their hands tied because they can’t permanently exclude and there are no alternative provisions to send the students to. So you end up with a system where kids are allowed to repeatedly disrupt and disrespect. Lots of parents are absolutely useless and are shocked when their spoilt child who has never been told no turns into a rude teenager. I won’t even get started on phones and tablets!

Thing is you see poor behaviour mentioned on MN all the time and it is dismissed as "age related", be that tantrums or teenagers supposedly being teenagers, kids given a free pass to act like total dicks because their parents don't have the stomach or inclination to sort it out, raising rude, entitled kids that likely misbehave at school, or at least go into adulthood more selfish than if they had been parented properly.

it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

It really isn't hard to monitor what kids are doing online though. You don't allow unsupervised access until you can trust them. You don't pay the bills you have to pay for them to have access to the internet. You take them out on walks and play card games with them at the weekend instead of allowing them to zombie in front of a phone all weekend. It's not the impossible task that people think it is. Yes you won't stop them seeing everything but as the parent I do think it's your job to stop them seeing so much that they're radicalised whilst they're still under your roof tbh

Schools pander to the hooligans as they're scared of the repercussion.
We were just talking about this last night, a boy in our family has now only to attend school for 3 hours per day as he was refusing to go, had terrible attendance; no SEN etc just allowed to sit up all night on xbox and then mum let him stay at home in bed rather than struggle to get him to school.
How on earth do these kids ever progress in life when all they have had is their own way and everyone pandering to them?
Mum excuses all his horrible behaviour,of screaming at his sisters etc with he's only young (nearly 14) I honestly see prison in his future, it's so sad.

Similarly, kids need to be raised to have respect for their elders and people in professional roles. Their own family, neighbours, teachers, police, doctors, etc. This is how society works. You respect people and learn from them - they care for you, teach you, protect you. Most kids I know think their respect needs to be earned - from their school teacher?! The overwhelming fear of the bad apple has led to people rubbishing the whole crop.

This with bells and whistles on.

Growing up in the 80s/90s - when up
to no good - we avoided not only our parents, but our neighbours and even the shopkeepers for fear of being reprimanded!

@Beeloux
Not even gentle parenting, just no parenting.
Kids growing up never hearing no, getting everything they demand, shitty behaviour excused, then it gets to
the point the parents are scared of their own child.

So you were allowed to eat what you wanted? Spend as much time on games or watch tele well into the night? Stay out way past your curfew with no consequences? Allowed to speak to adults in a rude manner? Allowed to stay off school if you wanted a day off?

This is what I mean when children are not told no. It isn’t just about wanting something, it’s breaking boundaries and rules and parents pandering to them rather than reinforcing rules. It doesn’t have to be in a dictatorial way, it can still be supportive and fair but children thrive on rules and routines.

@BackoffSusan

It was truly appalling. But if this is happening to me, it must be happening to others?
Here in the UK I had to wait forever for a paediatric appt.
First doctor told me she was ‘new’ and didn’t interact with DS until she got a ‘box’ out. Big fumble (she then said she had the wrong box). She then got another box full of disorganised junk as far as I could see, and spoke in a very child unfriendly way to DS.
From this she tried to cancel his ADOS screening and diagnose ASD.
I made massive fuss, insisted on screening and an experienced doctor.
Who didn’t diagnose ASD.

I will add that I do agree for NT kids there is a parenting crisis. I see it all the time and I've posted about it before. I take my 4 year old to soft play every week and every week there's 1 kid (different each time) who attacks my kid and others whilst their parent is on their phone/other side of room/not interested.

Last week at soft play there was a mum sat 2m away directly infront of her kid just watching and didn't intervene as her 5yo pinned my 4yo on the floor hitting and then biting my son's wrist. I had to jump over and intervene to pull him away. I then took my son over to the mum (who had seen the whole thing) and showed her the bite and she said sorry. But let her son stay, no apology from him. He then went on to break half a birthday display set up for a party and attack another kid, and finally his mum took him home. Yes my son has ASD but on the first instance of him doing that I would have told him off and taken him home.

Another week I took him and a similar thing. A little boy (5/6) going round pushing toddlers over and pulling hair. The dad just not doing anything. Next thing I hear my son crying at the back of soft play and the this boy has pinned my DS onto the floor and is pummeling him with his fists. I shout at the boy, tell him off and and that he needs to leave the soft play. Off he goes crying to his dad. His dad comes over with him to ask what happened. I tell him that whilst he's been on his phone his son has been attacking lots of kids. He tells his son to say sorry. His son says no he won't. Dad gives him a hug and he stays at soft play. And my son is asking me why isn't he being taken home or told off. Why is he allowed to do that. And I don't have an answer for him.

It happens every week. Some parents can't be bothered to parent.

I think we have an education system that is so poor in the way it attempts to teach children. Literally the exact opposite of how you would design it if you just looked at the research of how people learn. So kids are disengaged and teachers are stuck with enforcing something from the Victorian era. Then you have parents being forced to both work full time. If you are lucky and have a great employer it’s possible to meet your child’s needs and your employers but for waaaay too many families they default have to choose their employer over their child’s need just to keep the roof over their heads. We can’t really be surprised that more parents in full time work will mean more children in nappies in school. It’s pretty much a direct cause and effect.

If we want to see improvements, we bring back tax credits and we allow one parent to work part time until their child is 16/17.

Agreed. Gentle parenting only “works” for gentle, placid kids.

For majority of kids it doesn’t work, unless the parent drains themselves into exhaustion to maintain it. My friend did this. Her kids come through fine but she at the expense of herself. She drove herself into a deep depression trying to maintain her standards of explanation, gentle coercion and talking things out. She would have been better off picking her battles and regularly invoking “hard no, no explanation do as I say” boundaries.

seem to think that using kind and gentle words will help the kids magically know how to raise themselves

I don't think kind words are the focus. Children who don't hear those, see and hear violence have that behaviour modelled for them.

Because we aren't allowed to give them a right royal bollocking and a clip round the ear now. Can't even shout at them apparently - a child in the family at secondary school was told to inform teachers if they were shouted at at home. Reap what we sow. Gentle parenting ok for some kids but not all. Some (lots) need discipline and firm boundaries

I think it’s complex. It can’t just be down to parenting. I was brought up in the 1960s-70s and parenting was very hands off. I was of the generation that played out all day and went home for tea. If there was a problem, my parents said, Fight your own battles. That was literally their attitude. Lots of kids practically brought themselves up. My parents never ‘went up the school’ as education was completely separate from family life.

@TwentySecondsLeft I'm really shocked to hear that because I thought the ADOS screening was a mandatory part of the process for diagnosing ASD. God, what a shit show.

Mine are only young, primary age, so perhaps this is in my future - but this doesn't really reflect what I see at school etc. Most parents seem to be trying their best, children aren't allowed to run riot etc. Their school friends seem to be generally a good bunch.

There does seem to be a lot of parent bashing on this thread though. For what seems to me to be a society wide issue.

Yes, there is a rise in SEN - is this down to parenting? Was 80s/90s parenting ideal? Of my peer group, women 30s/40s, I see a substantial proportion being on some kind of medication for anxiety/depression/ADHD/etc. Were they too parented badly?

Kids are anxious - seems logical to me! They are very aware of and have grown up with the threat of climate change, we have been in an economic slump for decades, the far right has increasingly influence and power - where is the hopeful path for a good life for them?

They lack independence, sure I totally agree. But where are the libraries? Community centres? Youth centres? Half the parks aren't well maintained, or taken over by anti social behaviour. Would you walk by with an indulgent smile if you saw a group of 4-8yos playing alone in the street, or would you report it for neglect? Would a bus driver allow a 6yo to board alone, as I did as a child? Where should children go to develop independence? They grow up in their houses and constantly supervised because that is what society now demands, not because their parents have all, in a vacuum, made the same decision to be constantly hovering.

@BackoffSusan

So did I!!! He’d been on the list forever and first doc announced that she’d taken him off because she had enough evidence.

Cost cutting. Utter, utter shitshow.

So is his EHCP.

I think there are several factors contributing to it. But the change in teaching in the last five years is unbelievable. I remember in my first year of teaching I got one nasty parent complaint about holding their child accountable form their actions. It's pretty much every day we get a nasty email from parents attacking us for events their child has lied about.

Yesterday a child went home and told a parent I had thrown one of their belongings onto the roof because they were playing with it during line up time. We got a very lengthy email at 4:00 about what a bully I am and they are complaining to Ofsted. Parent was called straight in only to find out I wasn't even in yesterday!!! My child was sick so I was off. They also reviewed cctv when the kid said it happened to see if they got the staff name mixed up. The kid had chucked it himself! Do you think there was any apology? No!

This happens frequently. The same parents also refuse to discipline or even acknowledge their childs deceit. One kid last year was excluded from a trip for putting another child in a very dangerous position. The parents kept him off and took him to a theme park instead of allowing him to 'miss out.' A child could have been seriously injured because of him they didn't care.

And it's every day day in one corner of the school. It's getting worse because schools now don't even sanction bad behaviour. Literally the only thing that happens is a reflection sheet and they have to say sorry. Bad behaviour only changes when there are negative consequences for the actions.

@BackoffSusan

I researched a targeted specific diagnosis which - lo and behold - he has been given. His support matches his needs more closely now.

80% of autistic girls still don't have a diagnosis by the age of 18. This is largely as a result of the diagnostic criteria having been modelled on the 'external' (largely male) presentation of autism, rather than internal (mostly girls) presentation, which means that many children mask difficulites to great detriment of their mental health. Girls are affected by diagnostic overshadowing and are instead diagnosed with anxiety or personality disorders, phobias, eating disorders etc. They are around 20 times more likely to attempt suicide than their neurotypical peers. But most posters on this thread will have absolutely no idea about the challenges of diagnosis, nor the hurt caused by diagnoses being questioned and disbelieved. The default position seems to be that "SEN is overdiagnosed/ labels are attributed too easily" when there is a growing body of evidence - among girls/ women in particular - that this couldn't be further from the truth.

But all of this aside, it is not girls who are responsible for 95% of violent crime. We'd do just as well to look at this staggering statistic as the effectiveness of parenting. Imagine if 95% of violent crime were committed by girls! It would rightly be described as an epidemic. What makes boys in particular more likely to carry a knife into school?

@DryIce I don't think the increase in SEN is down to parenting. I think "poor parenting" is now commonly blamed for SEN. But my son clearly had signs of ASD from day 1, and has always been different to his friends, and the same for my friends kids with ASD. In my case I had to take prenisdone during my pregnancy and often wonder if that was a contributing factor along with my being an "older" mum.

I do think the rise in "anxiety" in kids is alarming though. What's causing that? And not just teenagers, but primary age too.

There’s always been knife crime. Was a huge problem in Victorian England.

But I agree parenting is facing a huge challenge right now, IMHO because of the lack of reference points from our own parents and grandparents on how to deal with common risks and problems. In one century, we’ve been through huge societal shifts in terms of community and family. As with everything, there are pros and cons.

Community is no longer confined to the family, neighbourhood, places of worship etc. You can be in a community with anyone in the world online. For some people, who were wronged or limited by their family, culture or IRL community, that can be a good thing. There’s a means of escape.

But it does make it harder for parents, who have less control and no reference points. You can’t think, “How did my nan deal with this, or my mum”, as they didn’t have to. When I was a teenager, the only way I could talk to anyone was if they came to our home, I spoke to them on the phone in the hall or I met them elsewhere. But my kids can be messaging anyone, even while with me.

All you can do is give them an anchor. Develop trust, open communication, let them know they can tell you anything without judgement, talk to them a lot about issues of they day and your view of them, so you naturally pass on wisdom, e.g. on how to stay safe whether it’s crime, drugs, sex, manipulative people etc. Encourage them to reason rather than react with emotion.

And realise how much kids need and want the guidance and support of adults IRL. They’ll never admit it. They may behave terribly. But I’m sure we can all think of things our parents and other adults (teachers etc) said to us in the past that have shaped our thinking, stayed with us until this day and keep coming back to us at moments of need. Your parents values and advice do stay with you.