The parenting crisis

[digimumworld]

I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

I'm another poster who thinks parenting is largely to blame. I see more and more parents who genuinely seem incapable of assertiveness with their children. Their body, their tone of voice, their words all portray a sense of pleasing rather than demanding. Kids grow up with a sense of power over people with authority that leads to a complete lack of respect and a huge sense of self-centredness. Parents are so focussed on protecting their children from any hardships however mild that children have no concept of resilience leading to the growing levels of anxiety and depression.

I also believe that there is a huge misconception about diagnosis of autism, ADHD etc... It's nothing like a diagnosis of a physical ailment. 'mild' autism, ADHD is diagnosed mainly on the words of the child/parents. If either exaggerate or dramatise through perception, most often perfectly genuinely, a doctor/psychologist is not going to distinguish the reality from the perception. Physicians also take oaths to assume that everything the patient tells them is factual.

This added to the huge pressure physicians are under to diagnose. A friend of mine was a community paediatrician. She specialised in autism on the late 80s. At the time, she saw patients with complex needs. Parents were devastated by the diagnosis and she had to provide support to the parents too. Over time, she started to see more and more children with symptoms that were mainly related to mental health issues. As the number of referrals largely increased and waiting list became longer, she experienced more and more pressure from parents who became angry if she ever suggested that their children didn't meet the criteria for diagnosis. She admitted to me that her appointments were spent more on managing patients expectations than helping them cope with a diagnosis, within a 20mns appointment to the point that towards her career, she was more and more so overwhelmed by parents demanding a diagnosis to access financial and educational support that in borderline cases, she would default to a diagnosis. In the end, like many other community paeds, she quite her role years before retirement because she had become more of a social worker than a physician.

I strongly believe that such diagnosis nowadays brings relief to many parents rather than concerns as it used to. It takes away any consideration of self-awareness and responsibility when ultimately, parents should always be the first port of call in helping their children to develop psychologically and socially healthy whilst clinicians and educators should focus on children whose needs require their expertise.

I know this won't be popular and that's fine. It's an opinion, one that isn't popular in our current society, or at least not vocally.

@CrocsNotDocs

There was a thread on here the other day about a 4 year old with hair down to her bum that was totally dominating family life- screaming hours long fights each day as the mum tried to brush and care for the hair. Obvious solution was to cut the hair to a manageable length but the mum said that wasn’t an option, because it “would traumatise her child”. Not sure if she meant refugee war child trauma or screaming and rolling around on the floor for an hour in a tanty trauma.

OP this is SPD. It's real. My daughter has it. The slightest noise or touch is traumatising.

Your post abelist you should have it removed.

FWIW we can help children like this, my daughter is now able to manage her sensory issues much better with strategies but forcing them to do things is not the answer.

Suggesting there is a link between this and knife crime where children kill other children (which is what this post is about) is abhorrent.

I think the parenting skills of the current generation leaves a lot to be desired.

A lot of parents these days have fragile egos and a sense of entitlement. They pander too much to their children so the child either has zero resilliance or an overblown ego and sense of entitlement themselves.

I'm not from the older generation (37yo) but I do partly blame the breakdown of a traditional family unit. People are way too quick to have children these days rather than first test the longevitiy and compatability of a relationship first, and so inevitably more kids are being exposed to toxic home lives.

The problem is with society as a whole, i think we were always on this trajectory but SM just sped things up. Collectivist societies don't have the same issues.

A big problem in the UK is generally, there are huge numbers of people who don't move and exercise. Going to the park is a rare treat for many kids.
Kids are spending whole weekends indoors gaming or watching YouTube.
Kids who go out a lot in nature really thrive. Nature Deficit is an actual thing and should be recognised more.
I was really interested in Norway as it has a similar (if not worse) climate to the UK (cold, damp, dark winters) yet Norwegians go out in nature a lot. It's encouraged and part of the culture to get outdoors a lot.
Scandinavia in general has a good outdoors culture and their children are often ranked as the happiest.

Don’t be ridiculous. The mother in that thread mentioned no diagnosis. Her dd had long thick curly easily matted hair and the dd reacted like every normal 4 year old when overlong, thick matted hair is brushed- with tears and indignation. The solution was to cut it to a sensible length, not to have the who family dominated by years of multiple hour long morning dramas.

This. Totally agree. I could not hold out that long - the school insisted, at 14, that they must buy an iPad before for study at the start of a new academic year. Bur I held out until my dc were 14 at least. With this iPad they had access to Instagram and other nonsense, but at home we are 'living in the past', call a spade a spade, I can't even repeat on here what we call non-medical plastic surgery (and dc were conditioned to view this in the same terms), Instagram 'influencers', 'going travelling to find oneself' instead of studying or working, and they knew from birth that wearing crests of other people (i.e. designer logos) belongs to the footmen.
They use the Internet mostly for study now, but even this supposedly good application of the Internet leads to such laziness and I have noticed their discipline suffered a lot - no desire to look through the relevant sources for answers, same desire for instant gratification with finding the source, poor social writing skills, only lols, rofls, and emojis - struggling with writing a formal email to the supervisor - 'mum, have a look, does it look OK?' I am so glad at their university they come down on them like a tonne of bricks for plagiarism and AI use, even expelling people - otherwise their brains would have shrivelled, what with them using AI for essays and plagiarising sources.

This’ll make you laugh. When we were in primary school there was a male teacher who used to throw the blackboard rubber at kids he thought were misbehaving or not listening. In secondary school we (get ready) stood up when a teacher came into the classroom. We were scared of getting into trouble and having to stand outside the headmistress’ office but we were more scared that she’d call our parents up to the school and tell them. If I went home and told my mum I’d been told off she’d say “well you must’ve been doing something then”. My mum and dad didn’t keep storming up the school to have it out with the teacher. As well as trusting the teachers’ judgement they were busy working. Yep, shock horror, they didn’t have time to pick fights at the school gates over what was considered then discipline. There’s a word we don’t hear much now. I’ll say it again; discipline

@paranoiaofpufflings, oh Lord yes, the long ‘be kind’ explanations to tiny children whose language skills simply can’t yet cope with it. A firm ‘No! We don’t do that,’ and a physical removal if necessary, is what’s needed. And I’ve never understood what’s wrong with ‘naughty’ - or a ‘cross’ voice if called for.

I used to work in a library where some parents* would never check children who were charging around screaming, bashing in to e.g. old ladies trying to choose books. (Staff were never allowed to say anything for fear of being labelled ‘non-child friendly’)
The usual parent’s response was on the lines of ‘Don’t do that, or ‘the lady’ will be cross.’ The library-staff lady, of course - not nice kind Mummy who was never cross.

*virtually always ‘nice’ MC parents 😩

It can take years to get a diagnosis. You are the one who is being ridiculous.

My daughter was that child at 4, she wasn't diagnosed then. She couldn't tolerate either hari brushing or hair cut , her hair was matted.

I am glad for you you've never had to experience it. I've never known anything like it. I saw people like you, parent blaming.

In the end in school weeks I couldn't get my daughter to change her clothes from Monday to Friday either. Or do any home work.

School said she was fine there and didn't support me trying to pursue a diagnosis. She ended up coming home and curling up in a ball and sleeping on the floor she refused to eat. I ended up self referring, she was diagnosed at 10 years old - 6 years later!

In reality she has complex needs that weren't diagnosed. If anyone saw our situation they would have said it was my parenting.

Now at 15 she's OK. we've found strategies. I removed her from the school system because she couldn't cope with the environment.

A lot of issues is to do with forcing children into educational environments which harm them, this was called inclusion and it was all about cost cutting.

You haven't got a fucking clue.

Interesting. I have the opposite view.

In the past, the ‘traditional family unit’ wasn’t always desired or a good thing. Access to contraception and abortion were non-existent or limited. Having a child without being married or getting a divorce was ostracising, shameful and/or financially impossible. There was little childcare to allow mothers to be financially independent. Women had to stay married.

Domestic abuse and violence in the home was hushed up and rarely called out. Same with child sexual abuse. Men had affairs but their wives couldn’t leave them with kids in tow.

That led to lots of kids growing up in very toxic relationships or damaging situations. Two generations of men came home traumatised by war and there was little or no help with mental health. Their families dealt with the consequences. It often came out in their kids.

Behind the facade of a ‘traditional family relationship’ there could (and still can) be a lot of unhappiness and damage.

I strongly believe that such diagnosis nowadays brings relief to many parents rather than concerns as it used to.

Of course I was relieved. After a decade of not being listened to, told it was a phase and discouraged from pursuing diagnosis, I was bloody relieved when the (NHS, so I didn't pay for my DD'S "label" 😇) diagnosis came through after over 2 years on the list and multiple appointments.

I was also deeply (as in, genuinely keeps me up at night) concerned and remain so for my daughter's future. I push and support and "boundary" her to go to school every day, which she does, but I know it's not the best environment for her. Of course I'm worried about how she'll manage in the workplace. Of course I have seen the statistics that she's something like ten times more likely that her neurotypical peers to die by suicide.

I would bet that 99% of parents of neurodivergent kids feel the same way as me. Parenting a child with SEN is like walking a tight rope every single day. We're exhausted. I had thought a thread about a parenting crisis might be talking of the crisis parents are going through - financial, mental health etc- rather that saying that shitty, feckless parents themselves - with a special head tilt reserved for SEN parents - ARE the crisis.

It takes years to get a diagnosis but you're confident stating this girl has SPD based on a third-hand summary of a Mumsnet thread? Right.

I think we need to do a few things:
Admit screen time is causing aggression and poor concentration
Admit it often gives out violent messaging as solution to problems
Admit now both parents need to work all hours there is less reliable parenting going on in the home
Admit everyone is overwhelmed and tired and put the breaks on
Admit we have under funded schools and teachers and we need to change this going forward
Admit the above has caused SaeN and MH crisis in both adults and kids
Admit out MH and SEN services are at rock bottom and we have to fix them immediately and do proper evidence based research into things like 4 days weeks to redress some balance.

@vivainsomnia

I think that’s a very good post, and you shouldn’t be shouted down for expressing that viewpoint.

I see so often someone complaining as a teacher has shouted at their child and maybe used a hurty word, or tone and they're asking how to approach the school about the teachers behaviour......what about their fucking child's behaviour!!

I have many friends who are secondary school teachers, good ones, and the stories they have of kids behaviour shocks me! When I was in secondary school in the 90s if you misbehaved you stood against a wall, facing the wall, or you sat with one teacher all day, usually the scariest teacher, or you spent the day in the head teachers office stapling/shredding and you got detentions and were stopped from doing the "fun" stuff. Now its seen as mean and not inclusive and I doubt many kids would even abide by these punishments.

And whilst SEN may play a part, I also see it used as an excuse for bad behaviour. Oh they can't help punching people and throwing chairs at the poor teacher as they have ADHD. Well, then they shouldn't be in school ! Teachers and other students shouldn't be punching bags!

Parents need to get a grip of their kids, support the schools, back the teachers, and check your kids school bags, blazers and phones.

I didn't see the thread but yes, no parent wants their child to walk about with matted hair then posts for help on Mumsnet!

Their mistake was posting on AIBU, it's a cess pit of abelism.

If they'd posted on the SEN boards they'd likely have had more helpful responses.

I'll turn this back on you why jump to lazy parenting?

All of it basically. Today’s parents grew up in the age of ‘positive reinforcement’.
So praise, praise, praise. Thanking children for doing the right thing, not correcting those who did the wrong thing, hoping they would pick up on and want the praise.
Not allowed any consequences for bad behaviour.
No competition in sport either in or out of school, which offers discipline - no hurt feelings, no resilience.
Only being allowed to correct the first five errors in a piece of writing - no hurt feelings
Schools forced to accept children in nappies, therefore no incentive to toilet train.
No police on the streets who would know the gangs, break them up, send them home, knock on doors and make parents responsible.
The internet, although brilliant in so many ways, is also a very dangerous world which is used as an electronic dummy by many who don’t engage with their children.

Mummy who was never cross.

virtually always ‘nice’ MC parents

What's the likelihood of these children being perpetrators of knife crime?

In comparison to a child who hears and sees violence, neglect or abuse?

If you're going to damage a child a kind word won't do it, other far more negative things will though

Young children stuck infront of video games and with access to social media. Know a little boy who was lovely. Now reclusive and disregulated. He games as soon as he gets home from school. Father plays violent video games.

moved DC from primary school. Was in a large class. Boy with SEN had a smartphone and would copy fight/‘kill’ moves in the breaks and completely disrupt the lessons. DS is strong and sporty, but the situation was dangerous as well as education suffering. The kid with SEN and limited support was obviously being failed massively too.

DS was ill recently and I let him watch tv a lot. Had fairly free access for a few days as we were all down with flu. Paying for it this week with rudeness and have gone back to very restrictive access (I don’t want none as he needs to watch a bit of the same things his peers do). Major hysterics for an hour, but now he is happier and more relaxed and playing.

apologies for English. Not first language

in a decade I think we will be more aware of the damage from screen use and be horrified.

I'm very suspicious of threads bashing "gentle parenting" as the opposing is smacking and authoritarian parenting, which has been shown to increase the likelihood of having violent and aggressive children. Often posters on these threads sound like they bashed their kids about and that taught them right from wrong, which is clearly not how it works either.

What I'm seeing here is problems with inclusion. So many kids not having their needs met in mainstream schools. Then being blamed for it.

Successive governments have failed neurodiverse children.

@Germanymunch

I’d reword that to ‘adults who don’t monitor theirs children’s screen time are fostering an environment where a child can become violent and aggressive’.

Similarly DS is inattentive to : the environment we are providing is causing DS to become inattentive.

Very, very important difference in the wording there.

Utterly ridiculous. Stop diagnosing random children.