The parenting crisis

[digimumworld]

I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

You get what you tolerate.

Applies to parents, teachers, schools, laws, police etc etc.

Britain has had a perception of being soft for a while now.

That's just terrible! Actually I think girls are more often ignored because they are often quiet and easier to ignore than boys whose behaviour can be more difficult to ignore.

Probably because Ofsted reports are flawed, and because it's less bad than many other schools, and because it used to be good and because there are good exam results (Probably due to high rates of private tuition)...
It's a relatively rural area so the catchment school for most pupils, with some travelling from out of area as neighbouring catchment schools are worse.

Well, it was through education and a healthy, trusting relationship with me and dh that my 14yo ds recently reported to his school being sent (by his best friend) a semi naked photo of his friend's gf. He didn't share it onward, he also told the girl in question that he'd been sent it and had deleted it immediately. Through monitoring his phone use, we were able to open up a conversation with him about what had happened (we saw the argument unfold with his best friend), encourage him to report it, and capture evidence which the school needed to investigate further. I'm far from an 'authoritarian' parent, but modern tech and welfare concerns are way more complex than the rule breaking we used to encounter. A balanced approach is needed.

There are internal and external presentations of autism. The internal (mostly girls) presentation only becomes noticeable when mental health issues arise as a result of keeping everything in and hidden. 80% of girls are still undiagnosed by the time they're 18. And yet according to some people, getting a diagnosis is as easy as sneezing.

www.gov.uk/government/news/england-among-highest-performing-western-countries-in-education

Was having a discussion with friends about this yesterday and one of them is a HCP in a relevant field and believes that modern, processed, sugary and gluten filled diets strongly correlate with growth of ND children. Kind of made sense to me in a broader way.

100%. The rose coloured specs are most certainly on.

Anyone who grew up working class in 1970s and 1980s must remember how violent life was. Primary playgrounds were violent: rough play prevailed; there were almost daily fights (boys and girls) in secondary school; kids playing out would be violent and play so rough there were endless broken bones; punk gigs were violent with people being glassed and gobbing on you; constant violence at football matches; the police were far more violent (especially if you were Black or on strike); fights regularly erupted in pubs and clubs. Plenty of knife crime. Tons of domestic violence. Tons of sexual assault.

Society is MUCH less violent now. It’s much kinder and more inclusive now (though still a long way to go).

But people have short memories.

@digimumworld "its so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media."

Children (under 18) shouldn't have social media period. I have an adult son (23) he did not own a smartphone until he bought one himself when he started his first job at 17. He had a basic mobile to call and text. I find it so infuriating and sad that the damage being done to young people has been proven yet pretty much every 12 year old in the country is allowed to have it.
I also knew of a few friends who are scared of their children and use no consequence for bad behaviour.
Whilst they haven't grown up and joined a knife gang a big chunk have serious mental health problems and known have stayed in further education or found employment.

I’m going through the replies! It’s been a long day with the kids haha -

@jellyfishperiwinkle I really don’t think the mental health and cost of living crisis is an excuse for poor parenting. Sure - a parent with poor mental health might be a poor parent, but there are people that should really know better that are just complacent.

I do wonder if there is something that needs to be said about how phones have affected parenting. Phones are addictive - as studies have shown, we are hooked and it’s a massive dopamine hit. I remember spending 3 hours on TikTok during the pandemic - I had a kid to look after! I deleted it on the same day and have never downloaded it since. Perhaps phones are also to blame for parenting.

@Littlemisscapable there was a show called SuperNanny I used to watch as a kid. Regardless of what people say about it, it forever taught me that children need boundaries and displine. There were plenty of shows like the baby whisperer etc. but also what the previous generation had was other people chipping in. A few PPs have said it - my mum could take another child to their parents and expect that child to have a telling off - these days parents have a go if you say that their child have done wrong - so nobody talks. The community that would collectively set behavioural boundaries has dissapeared. My mum used to say “you better behave when you are out because there are aunties/uncles/family friends watching” and there would be a friendly face, and people would report back “did you see so and so doing x” - we call it judging now, but we have to allow others to have a say when appropriate if a child is acting up in public. Also so many people don’t want to hear from their parents or IL - they are the first people to pass down information - but we think the older generation are wrong (I want to highlight that not everyone that raised kids in the 80s/90s and beyond was abusive).

I’ll be scrolling through the many replies now! (I’m still on page 3!)

@Superstorefan123 Im curious - what made you want to do all of those things? Being head girl etc? Were you and your sister driven? Or was it instilled in your family culture?

There are some children that are “easier” than others. Like my DD is so easy and so self motivated. I have friends who can’t seem to “motivate” their children or notice one child has an easier personality than the other.

@EdithBond kids playing out would be violent and play so rough there were endless broken bones;
That was not my experience at all. I played out in a very socially mixed rural area in the 1970s and early 80s; there were certainly a lot of working class DC running loose with a number of more middle class DC. The only serious playing out injury I can recall was when a friend fell out of a tree and needed stitches. Fights in the playground at primary school were quelled within half a minute by the supervising staff.

I'd agree about punks and football, though.

@digimumworld My mum used to say “you better behave when you are out because there are aunties/uncles/family friends watching” and there would be a friendly face, and people would report back “did you see so and so doing x” My DC grew up in a close community in the 2000/2010s and I didn't even need to warn them - they knew! I got reports back on who hadn't looked properly before crossing the road and how they had all said please and thank you in the shop. I really appreciated it.

There were daily fights when I was at school. Open drug taking. My children look horrified when I tell them what my school was like. I think there has been one fight in the three years they have been at secondary school.

Teens today smoke less, take less drugs, drink less and have sex later. I'm not sure that things are getting worse.

Well, it's pretty fucking scary that an actual health care professional - who should know better- is coming out with that kind of guff.

@digimumworld I think you are very right about judging being frowned on and the lack of a community supporting discipline.

I was born in a northern area heavily reliant on coal, both grandfathers were employed in the coal industry, there was poverty for sure, but the majority of people were hardworking, spotlessly clean and their children were well behaved. Church or chapel were very important to most and those principles informed people’s behaviour. I moved away at a year old, but spent a lot of time there as a child during holidays etc.

Going back last summer for an elderly relative’s birthday I was aghast to see what had become of previously poor but respectable areas, there were black clad teens hanging round the streets, people walking to the shops in nightwear etc. Rubbish and dumped furniture everywhere.

The children at the party were either feral or utterly over indulged being allowed to sing loudly on the stage to Disney songs, stopping the elderly guests chatting. The teens were behind the hall swigging Jack Daniel’s and vaping.

Yes there is a problem with permissive parenting, but society and communities are broken in other ways, drugs are a huge issue, and the heart has been torn out of places by losing industries that gave them work. There are massive issues in former mill towns in the North West where I now live, especially with County Lines and many children who never seem to go to school.

My DH went to a grammar school in London (before they were changed to private or comprehensive) and he said boys bringing in knives was a common occurrence. They got confiscated by the prefects.

I went to a state grammar school as well and we were very well behaved. The worst anyone (I) did was not hand in homework on time.

Interesting question - I think we were quite self motivated easy children but equally my mum always talked about how important school was and was very proactive (eg lots of reading with us etc) which I think made us think school was important.

And this is why I don’t think money is the biggest issue. Those strong communities weren’t rolling in it, were they? They just gave a shit.

Yes, but the level of social cohesion was high and employment was supported by thriving local industry. Then the heavy industry was dismantled and wider families who had lived in proximity to each other and supported each other were completely atomised. Communities were hollowed out and left under resourced.

@digimumworld I loved supernanny!!!!! I know it has dated and some of her methods were poor but the main message was good. There was another show that I learned so much from..the House of Tiny Tearaways with this clinical psychologist Tanya Byron, she was amazing. Parents need more support, advice and information. Children need boundaries they really help them ! Our desire to diagnose everyone with something isn't always helpful.

I think extremes of opinion aren't helpful in either direction. "Zero discipline/zero effort/zero respect" about an entire generation of parents and their kids is lazy thinking and just stirs up tension.

Two things can be true at once: there are new challenges to this generation of parents and their families, e.g. technology advancing at a rapid pace, social media, disconnects from previous generations, etc.; and, that every single generation since the dawn of time believes that the new generation have lost the plot and are going to doom the world with their failings.

On no way am I

My DC grew up in a close community in the 2000/2010s and I didn't even need to warn them - they knew!

Good behaviour used to come with a sense of pride. This made it worth the efforts to behave well.

Nowadays, those who behave well as just ignored and taken for granted. They are told directly or indirectly that they are lucky and privileged to be 'normal, whilst those misbehaving are getting a lot of attention and sympathy because it's not their fault they behave as they do and their environment is letting them down so exceptions must be made for them.

Not much incentive to behave well any longer.

Isn't it strange reading through all of this that not one person admits to doing anything wrong with their parenting. Obviously no bad parents on Mumsnet!

I agree there is a parenting crisis. I get tired when I see TV and news saying we need youth clubs and mentors and schools to do more to stop knife crime. My first thought is always we need better parents. I am a parent and I am not perfect in fact I feel like I am winging it 90% of the time so I am not an expert. But I have noticed that if I even raise my voice slightly in public at my children, I get really awful looks from people. It's like you can't even tell your own child off anymore. Even the 'thinking' step is frowned upon.

Poverty would make parents get kids out of nappies quicker.

it’s laziness.