The parenting crisis

[digimumworld]

I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

@Hwi well I might not be a good pianist or a ‘choral scholar’ but I can recognise an Olympic gold medal ME RAIL when I see one and you my dear have been awarded a double gold, congratulations! Hope you’re kids are CHORAL SCHOLAR OSCAR WINNING at everything they’ve ever done or you have been breathtakingly rude in expecting anyone to even look at or acknowledge them tbh (that was sarcasm, your poor bloody kids 🙈)

I think you could solve the public transport thing by giving kids paper rail/bus passes like we had. And they can have a phone, but an old fashioned one with texting and calling only,

The problem is though that lots of parents could ban social media and smartphones, but you'll have exactly the same issues that you have with TV programmes, 18 rated games etc - that some parents allow it, so all parents feel they have to. Ditto if you have older kids - the 18 year old will be on Instagram showing their 14 year old sister all the pictures of perfect women with perfect looks.

And that's without the whole issue of AI and misinformation.

Yeah right...

What's all this "the parents just complain to the school".

Why are the schools so weak? Tell the parents to fuck off. Schools need to grow a pair and back teachers and enforce rules, parents can like it or lump it. Kids need to learn boundaries.

Parents need to parent.

That would be a start.

👆🥳

I'm not at all sure it's right to say that teenagers are vastly less well behaved than they used to be.

In the 80s our local secondary school was an absolutely terrifying place. There was open bullying - the sort that these days would get called "robbery" and the police involved. Weaker children had their uniforms torn and would be set upon and beaten up by the bullies. Groups of kids outside school smoking fags. Teenagers would hang out at the local park after school with half bottles of vodka and cigarettes making it unusable for younger children. School uniform was barely observed - loads of kids coming in black jeans, untucked shirts, tie draped round shoulders and nobody ever said a word. At halloween the same older kids would egg houses, bonfire night they'd be setting off fireworks directly at each other or into people's gardens. SEN kids and the disaffected would truant their last couple of years at school away, often gathering to go shoplifting round Boots.

I do wonder whether some on this thread have their rose-tinted glasses firmly attached when it comes to how things used to be.

ClownStar I went to a rough secondary school too but I think it's pretty clear that average behaviour in schools has deteriorated significantly in the past decade or two. We now have primary school children being threatened and injured daily by violent pupils. Kind of puts teenage drinking and wearing black jeans into perspective.

🤣🤣 I love that scene and fecking love Derry girls

I know someone with a beautiful angelic looking toddler who understandably doesn't like being told "no" and will cry when they are (like every other toddler in creation). And so friend always relents and gives into them because she hates to see him upset. I did ask what will happen when he's no longer cute older but she just laughs and shrugs so I'm none the wiser.

I have a family of teachers and by and large they all say the same thing - that many parents seem convinced their children are being victimised if they’re called in as a result of said bad behaviour. A lot of children are told from an early age that school rules don’t really matter (lying to teachers about being ill to go on holiday in term time, etc etc) and the result is kids who grow up with no respect for their school or teachers and parents who refuse to accept their child could ever be in the wrong. If that’s their attitude in relation to school, I can well imagine that permeates into other aspects of parenting.

@coxesorangepippin back trolling again. You clearly have no idea about autism and no empathy. A meltdown with an autistic kid is very different to a tantrum. Here's an example. I take my 4yo son to the Christmas winter market at school. He has been excited about it all week. We get there and it's busy. This spooks him. Because it's not what he usually experiences at school on a typical day, it throws him off. He's asking to go to the classroom but it's a Saturday. He doesn't get it. He's even more spooked that the gym has been converted into a market. We try to calm him down, but it's too late. We've been there 5 mins and he's got his hands over his hears crying that he wants to go home. We try to convince him to stay, he runs off shouting and crying. We pass his friend, he shouts go away and runs off crying. It takes 45 mins to get home which is a 10 min walk.
When I see my friends kids have tantrums, it usually blows over in a few minutes and they can reason with them, eventually. It's a "I don't want to eat that/try that". And eventually they do. With Autism it's much more rigid. My son would prefer to go without and starve than try the food.
Last year we went to soft play and he wet himself. He won't wear shorts and I stupidly packed a spare pair of shorts in my bag. We spent 45 mins in the toilet with him crying and me trying to convince him to put the shorts on. There is no reasoning. There's no compromise. In the end we went home.
That's a melt down. There's no coming round from it. Just have to ride it out.
Parenting an autistic child is exhausting and it makes my blood boil how many people there are like you who have no idea what it's like. Completely ignorant. God I wish it was that simple that I could just fine tune my parenting and make it go away, that would make my life alot easier.

My London comprehensive was akin to Grange Hill, probably worse, I can categorically state that my DC's school is not worse, I know as they recoil in horror when I tell them some of the tales from the good old days!

I don't think this is the case from all the Autistic children I known including my own. It took me a while to understand it. There's a pervading issue with some autistic kids and that is a need for autonomy and control, black and white thinking and a drive to challenge injustice vociferously. So the traditional hierarchical structural in life and school especially is not understood and this makes every aspect of life and parenting incredibly problematic.

I wouldn't want to be a teacher dealing with all this in a million years.

We do stand more of a chance facing reality and addressing this if reality is accepted.

Appropriate school provision outside of mainstream is vital right now. Support services that are accessible for these kids and allow access to medication. Yes, I think sometimes medication is the only option. But families can't access it. I'm paying £500 for a private follow up appointment to access ADHD medication this month. Child fully diagnosed with various ND conditions. How many can afford that.( The NHS is turning people away).

I really don't buy the feckless parents line knowing so many like myself dealing with this. We've always had parents you'd identify as incompetent and incapable. But parents haven't suddenly just all become useless and feckless because of SM brainwashing. Something else has shifted and its a combination of societal factors exacerbating.

Btw an Autistic meltdown really is a very distinct thing from a tantrum. It's a bit scary if such commenters on here are working in schools. Eeek. ( Not you @Velvian btw)

And I have nothing but support for teachers. Such an inadequately rewarded job for everything they're expected to deal with. Totally unsustainable.

Agree.
example: swimming class, one disruptive child. Swimming teacher says nothing, parent sat on side also says nothing. Child allowed to disrupt learning for other students. Ffs

I'd also argue with those that say it's not about the school its about the parents. My son went to a bilingual montessori preschool at 3. There were 30 kids in a class with 3 teachers. We took him out after 4 months. He hadn't been diagnosed with autism at this point and we had had lots of back and forth with the school that he was really disruptive. We had regular meetings and tried various strategies that were suggested. They flip flopped between telling us they thought he had autism to telling us he was badly behaved due to "inconsistent parenting". During that time he became very withdrawn, sad. He didn't want to go to school at all. What we didn't know is that he was being restrained and put him isolation during break time. I only found that out after I pulled him out and requested a report to take for his autism assessment. The week after I removed him, he started in a small English preschool, max 10 kids 2 teachers. He went in on day 1 with no issues and instantly I got my happy boy back. He was no trouble and they loved him! That was a stop gap before he started another mainstream school in September and once again he's been happy and settled there. They have said he's one of the easiest kids they have, well behaved, happy and thriving.
So it goes to show the school environment can have a big impact on kids behaviour. We realise that DS likely struggled in a noisy chaotic classroom with too many children. He prefers structure and routine. And he needs space - big classrooms and time and space outdoors. And a good ratio of teachers to kids.

We've always had this sort of thing. There's always been some parents that are distracted or just don't step in and say shut it Johnny and listen! 🤷‍♀️

Oh yes, the park thing was similar where I lived, lots of yobs destroying the equipment, wrapping the swings around the top pole over and over so you couldn't use them. Where I lived was a real mix of classes and families so you were both going to school with MP's, journalist's kids but also lots of race violence with gangs which was around the time of Stephen Lawrence's murder. Lots of young football hooligans at school. Where I live now the parks are amazing and are definitely for young children. My DS is a football supporter and the local team is in the premier league but it is a very family friendly atmosphere.

I wish the schools would front up to these parents too.

But they're the sort of parents who 'know their rights', and who will lodge a formal complaint. This is hugely stressful for the whole leadership team as well as the staff being complained about. It takes even more time, stress and effort to deal with the complaint than to handle the parents with kid gloves and deal with the behaviour of their DC.

TBH I think the local authorities should really support schools who tackle parents like this. But as it is, it takes the school 2-3 years to work out just how time-consuming that family unit is, then another year or so to realise that nothing they do will make the situation any better. By this stage the child is going into Y4, so the SLT takes the decision to just suck it up for another 3 years (rather than have the complaint lodged and the LA breathing down their necks) and then the child is off to secondary school, hurrah! and not their problem any longer.

I'm not saying this approach is right - I don't think it is - but it's pragmatic and I can 100% see why schools do it. Both courses are terrible for the staff - I watched a friend go through several terms of stress and worry after being complained about by the mother of a DC. The DC in question is lazy, dishonest and manipulative, because he has found that these behaviours get him exactly what he wants: mummy under his thumb, never having to do any work, and lots of fuss and attention. So he's becoming arrogant as well. I worry about his future, genuinely. Adult life is going to be a hideous shock.

And for the absence of doubt I'll say again, I have absolute respect for the parents of DC with genuine SEN who step up, get them EHCPs if appropriate, support the school etc. Those DC often do fantastically well, even if there isn't much educational input at home: all it takes is the parents backing the school and encouraging the child.

With all this, let's not forget that there are amazing kids around, caring, respectful and with amazing emotional intelligence. Most will have great parents, but quite a few of them will be fantastic kids despite a less than perfect home life.

I did this. School (high performing grammar) dealt with it by simply ignoring me and leaving me to read novels at the back of the class in Maths. I never completed a single piece of homework during my entire secondary career- again, ignored. I was the only girl in the year not to get Maths GCSE. This was in the 80s/90s.

Diagnosed with autism in my 40s.

Public transport: TfL have removed local maps information from lots of bus stops. There is now a poster telling you to 'be kind' at many. Not helpful!Train stations are removing paper timetables from the walls. It's getting increasingly harder to plan a journey without a phone.

Add to this the lack of provision for those with SEND who can't and never will cope in mainstream but it's their right to be there and you can see the issue. I work with a 12 year old who has the English and comprehension skills of a 5 year old. We are forcing him through the national curriculum and he can't cope. He sobs and internalises the frustration (very low self esteem) but he is being let down by everyone

I really think there needs to be serious conversation about kids like this and what is best for them. Because it's not being in a mainstream classroom. What is a child like that supposed to be getting out of not being able to even comprehend the work of the class?

For some it might be a specialist classroom. For some a setting where they can get help with non-academic skills. But I also think there are others for whom school isn't the right place at all, and they would be better off in a home setting. But it seems forbidden to say to parents - you know what, your child would be happier, healthier, and getting more of what he needs in a home setting with some support for you to manage.

Should have a no phones policy in schools. Each class can keep them in a safe to be collected at the end of the day.

Zero tolerance for things like bringing in a knife or drugs to school = immediate exclusion.

Any violence towards teacher - immediate suspension for the pupil and exclusion depending on the severity.

Swear at teacher or disrupt the lesson - kicked out the class

Have security staff on the front doors of secondary schools

This would stamp much of the problems out. But teenagers are never going to be perfect.

A lot of schools have rules like this already. It's the crap ones that don't.

And they wonder why they're full of feral kids who are out of control.

Kids test boundaries for what they can get away with. Zero tolerance.

Tbh I recall one of my classmates being expelled from a school for swearing at a teacher. State school in the 1990s.

You get what you tolerate.