The parenting crisis

[digimumworld]

I’m listening to the radio, the discussion is on knife crime. A caller calls in and says that we are collectively failing our children - she’s a school governor and parent and said that teachers are scared of children and that we need to stop blaming teachers - we should ask ourselves what’s going on at home for many children and that there is a huge parenting crisis at the moment.

I actually agreed. It seems more common now for there to be very little consequence for “bad behaviour” from parents. I know a few parents that are scared of their children - or at least scared of hurting their children’s feelings; also (this is the reality for me too as a parent) it’s so so hard to monitor what they are exposed to on social media - how do we know if the content they are seeing is overriding the values we are setting?

I am a parent - I truly believe that the modern parent has so much more to consider (incase relevant).

AIBU for thinking maybe there is a parenting crisis?

Has that changed though, because I remember that sort of thing 35 years ago in my well regarded state secondary school.

Maybe not the fire alarm bit, but everything else. Being groped by the boys was so common as to be normal, weapons were brought to school (I had a knife thrown at me), drug taking on school property, windows smashed, school property stolen, I had a chair thrown at me so furniture was definitely being thrown about. Boys didn't go in the girls changing room, but they did make a hole in the ceiling between the girls and boys toilets so they could look through.

Meh, I think every generation of parents feels the same way about the next generation. "Back in my day"s stretch back through the generations.

I agree with this. But for me this part is the most relevant:
Shit wages, cost of living and a totally unregulated, unfair housing market is also doing its bit to discourage young people from aiming higher and achieving.

There is no hope anymore. Until housing is affordable again, and our young people feel like they have a future, there is nothing for them to work towards. Why bother studying hard or trying to get a 'good' job if you're still not going to be able to afford a decent home at the end of it?

Meh, I think every generation of parents feels the same way about the next generation. "Back in my day"s stretch back through the generations

That's very true but didnt extend to serious concerns about the future of our economy.

I'm not blaming teachers re. the knife incident, but surely if a boy wasn't allowed to be excluded for carrying in a knife last week, surely the school should be searching his bag daily before he was allowed into school?

He should have been excluded. He should be prosecuted. His parents should be investigated for neglect frankly.

It is not just children who lack consequences for their behaviour but adults.

Don't forget the "shaking and crying."

Does anyone think that parent's own experiences in childhood, the way they were taught at school and the environment and the same about how they grew up in families was too strict and SEN not accounted and accommodated for was too strict?
I do not have children, but I am neurodiverse and had no help at school and a terrible home life where both were not child based enough, one more than the other.
Do people think that parents now are 'going too far the other way' as in not holding their children responsible when they need to be and shielding then from the realities of life when they were forced to learn in ways that they couldn't and had pencil cases thrown across the science lab (my experience).
I couldn't revise in the one size fits all that we were expected to just undertake it and shut-up about it. There was another child in my class and our characteristically horrible cookery teacher told her to 'get over it' when she cried about the margarine that her recently dead dad had used that appeared on the table.
I was painfully underweight as a child and I was forced to stand out in the bitter cold to watch a hockey match. I felt faint as I only ate a tiny bit of potato and some iceberg lettuce.
These are very obvious instances where teachers and school staff were too harsh, and I was an abused child which the school was only somewhat aware of, but I've heard tales of other children from friends or on here that make me believe that I wasn't an isolated case.
We had an arse hole geography teacher that told another girl that she smelt of dog hair and another teacher brought up in class about the the bad behaviour of their mother.
I am not denying that parents now blame school staff too much (I'd hate to be a teacher on these grounds alone) and that their children are allowed to behave without consequence, BUT I do wonder where it stems from.
I have to admit, if I was a mother, I would worry about damaging my child by being too strict even if I wasn't because my view is skewed and influenced by past experiences. However, that is largely the parent's responsibility to fix.

I have 1 ND and 1 NT kid. They are both extremely well behaved at school and in public. All the kids I know that have firm boundaries at home and parents who won't tolerate being hit, climbed on, or screens at dinner tables are lovely children who are a delight to be around and my kids enjoy spending time with. All the ones who are never told no, have parents that expect the world to mold to their child's needs etc are annoying and often violent kids that my kids don't enjoy seeing. Unfortunately they are from families very close to us.

It has been much harder to parent my ND child and we do have to adapt things a bit for her to enable her to thrive but this doesn't impact other people and we still have high expectations of her. Obviously more severe SEN is different but people used to be able to raise kids with milder SEN and ND to function in society.

One tends to find well behaved children and well behaved dogs in the same families- Because the adult/s put the groundwork in.

The story of the badly behaved child wanting to urinate in the playground- Thank goodness the other children had the strength of character to say 'No' to that behaviour.

Now there are a myriad excuses made for bad behaviour and lack of toilet training - The playground pee-er probably is quite undisciplined at home, and discipline isn't about smacking as some think.

There are three ways to go.

Pushing with authority, fear and threats. Children becom resilient but with trauma due to the experience.
Helping children by encouraging avoidance of any stimuli causing stress and anxiety. This initially works wonderfully, but does much damage in the long term.
Or there is the middle approach: avoidance is not an issue (except in exceptional instances), but parents support and express empathy through the process.
The latter is the most demanding approach from a time and energy perspective. It's hard and so more and more parents resort the the former.

This does sum it up for me a lot of the parenting we've had to do.

Three children with differing needs and personalities - and we've always gone with middle approach which is hard work - hard to get right for that child on that day - and sometime built up over years.

Plus everyone wants to tell you your wrong - especially parents doing other approaches.

I got sort of criticized this summer with DD2 - a friends similar issues to her - my DD had been quite busy and independent while they'd gone more for avoiding. I got that sort of critical questioning - that we must be pushing and weren't we worried about damage when it's lot of little things practised and slowly built up over last decade plus coming together. Plus having struggled with competing needs as kids as teens they can and do offer support to one another.

The best solution for the social media is no social media. Research is showing it has negative effects on brain development and there really is nothing good to come from it for young people and children. I agree parents’ are on the whole softer in this era but the social media is easily tackled by a blanket ban. Imo it should be legislated and there should be acceptance that no under 16s should have access to a smartphone.

I think there was a problem with strictness for its own sake in some schools 25+ years ago, my experience in the 90s was on the whole fine as I behaved but I did sometimes answer back if I saw something as unjust with these strict rules. So one time, I was told to stop smiling and daydreaming by a teacher and I questioned why and he immediately sent me outside to stand in the snow for the whole lesson. Fundamentally he wasn't a nice person, chucked text books at people but other stuff which was weird and I won't go into here. I think he knew that I knew that as I was a high grade student so it wasn't a work issue, he was just asserting his authority for the sake of it.

Imo it should be legislated and there should be acceptance that no under 16s should have access to a smartphone.

Given that public transport - timetables and tickets - are increasing more or only available via smart phones/internet access - I'd disagree as last thing I think needed is less autonomy and ability to self navigate round the world in teen years.

Even though my DC secondary now does not allow any phone use in school hours - messaging and educational apps still get pushed by them - encouraging screen and in some families phone usage. I think the change in attitude would need to be very though.

However banning social media till 16 - could get behind that but then it's how it's done.

Research has long since confirmed that males tend to express their anger in the form of phsycial violence whilst women will choose verbal and emotional violence. So the focus on males v females is a pointless one.

Knife crime has increased but so has female online harrassment and gossiping, so it's not an issue limited to one gender. This further provides proof that it is a parenting crisis because parents clearly are taking no responsibility or ownership towards their childrens behaviour.

Completely agree. I used to work in education and the reality of crap parenting is horrifying. Parents expecting teachers to sort everything and insisting that their little darling is special. We have a problem in our town with a group of 8 11-14 year olds, who the parents claim are far too anxious and fragile to go to school. Their anxiety doesn't stop them throwing stones at cars, stealing bikes and scooters and shoplifting though 🤔 My son has autism and since he was tiny I have said I will never stand by and watch him hurt someone or be deliberately rude or blame autism on his behaviour. One day he will be an adult and I will hopefully be gone before him. I owe it to him to be able to live a fulfilling life, without me constantly in front of him making excuses.

I think the problem is everyone's fear of reprimanding another person's child, so that the only person in the world who is licenced to discipline their child is the parent. That is an enormous pressure to place on the shoulders of two people or often one person. That's without the extra complication of that parent having mental health problems, addiction etc.

My dS had a lot of behaviour problems, I was at my wits end at various points. No matter what he did no one ever helped or stepped in even if I asked them to. It would have helped so much if another parent had scolded him in the playground or a waiter in a cafe asked him to sit down etc. Even with family or friends I'd say if he does X please tell him stop and don't be afraid to be firm and I'd come back from the toilet or whatever and he'd be wrecking the room while they watched on in silence waiting for me to deal with it. Yes, he was my responsibility but one person can only do so much. The school was very soft, no repercussions so their policy was to ring and tell me about something with no context, which he would then deny, so I'm trying to dole out a punishment relating to school to a child who is already constantly reprimanded at home. It was very unfair. Along came a teacher when he was 9 and had no problem yelling at him or holding him back from am activity, she contravened school policy and guess what, he started to behave for her. Likewise he was an angel at training because the coaches had zero tolerance for misbehaviour. Some children are crying out for a society that shows them boundaries, it should be a collective effort, at least to some degree.

I agree with all of this. I think parenting in the 50s/60s was too authoritarian and not at all child centred but by the 70s/80s there was more of a focus on children’s development whilst children and teens still had a respect and, dare I say it, a little bit of a fear of school and parents.

Now, I don’t want to have my children fear me but what I have realised is that my more gentle approach has not worked with my teens and I’ve had to take a harder line and have them scared (a little!) of my reaction and the consequences. This goes against my nature and what every parenting book might say but the reality is that gentle parenting and a lack of consequences has led to out of control teens.

Exactly, I thought this as well. If it comes to metal detectors at the school door, I'm quite happy for my taxes to pay for this or security guards.

It's not the answer to the problem, I've read most of the thread and I don't know what is, but a 15 year old child would still be alive and another 14/15 year old wouldn't be in court having stabbed a teacher in Wales

At my DC's junior school I did intervene once when a childminder was being pinched and punched by her mindee who was in my Dad's class as it was awful to watch. I only gently said that it was unkind and she was hurting the woman but the next day the Mum who I knew, pulled me up on it, she was polite but asked me to tell her in future.

I would add that for instance the knife crime crisis is also immigrant parents working themselves to dead. Teens with not enough supervision or resources and a lack of identity in the country they moved to or were born to. No one acknowledged this but look at who are the kids and background. As a society we need to do better and rather than be scare to talk about it. Look for ways to make it better.

@Goldenbear yeah that's part of the problem though, the belief that only a parent can talk to their child and any one else is interfering or crossing a boundary. That's why people are afraid to intervene. As a society we assume the child is the parents property but they are little humans who need to learn the rules of our society and part of that is how to behave if the parent isn't there. I think that's what's got to change but it won't happen anytime soon.

Smartphones have been an utter disaster for society in so many ways, and we need to protect kids from them decisively and with immediate effect.

It's not the smartphones which bother me, it's the lack of supervision and parental controls.

What are the solutions though?

I would bring back sure start centre for sure.

Invest in parenting courses.

Monitoring and intervention of childen who are displaying worrrying/challeging behaviours at a young age. So that parents get support early on before behaviours escalate.

But I would also replicate what Iceland did even though many would consider part of their approach 'draconian ' or a 'nanny state'

What Iceland did

• massive investment in youth provision. Youth clubs where teen could just hang out but also free extra curricular activities for each child.

• a massive push for parents not just to spend quality time with their children but also a large quantity of time with their children

• and finally, more controversially, a curfew for those under 16.

And the lack of parental supervision may be because they're distracted by phones. It's not just children who suffer from this.