Waiting for the right guy equals no baby

[Chiliconcarneplease]

I'm going full force with this - I hate how many people on here say about waiting for the right guy before having a baby (you had a baby in your situation???) Etc but between 30 to 40% of women are expected to end up childless (involuntarily) because they were searching for the right guy.

We have to accept women having babies in less than ideal situations, or we're fucked as a race.

Of course there are ethical implications!!

You’re creating a human being where they will have no relationship and possibly no knowledge of the person who is 50% of their DNA.

I have family who while happily adopted are grieving the mother they will never meet.

Both donor conception and adoption have ethical implications. To a lot of the children involved biology really matters. It’s unfair of adults to push the narrative of once there is love nothing else matters on children.

@mumofoneAlonebutokay
You have just confirmed my view that a lot of people don't think about the long term effects of raising and human being and thinking of the here and now/baby stage.

Of course there is ethical implications.
Please do your research

Huhhh adoption has ethical implications? So kids should just be left in care?

Everything has implications tbh - natural birth vs c section, breast v bottle, schooled vs home schooled, being black vs being white. Straight parents vs same sex parents, rich vs poor

Every decision in life could impact a child and their future - that's life

If you want to have a child - a child you'll be raising for the rest of your life, do so - all you need is love, financial stability and a roof over your head, and physical and emotional support in the form of family and friends - failing that, enough money for a nanny!

🥰

“All you need…”- that’s an absolutely mammoth list of things! What if you get sick? Can’t work? Your parents get old and need help? You move away?
Glad it’s going well for you, but that’s a glib answer.
Adoption of a living child is not comparable to using donor sperm to create a whole new individual.

If the only way to keep the human race going is for children to be born into traumatic situations or poverty then we deserve to die out.

You’re not concerned with survival of the human race, OP, you just want people to tell you it’s OK for a woman’s need to procreate to be more important than a child’s need to have loving, willing parents. Don’t worry, though, as MN is full of women who agree with that.

@mumofoneAlonebutokay exactly everything has implications but you said sperm donor does not.
It has massive ethical implications! I do not agree with bringing children into the world by a sperm donor because a women wants a baby! Not thinking of the future human she is bringing into the world.

Adoption does have a lot of implications also. A lot people are affected by adoption and want to know 'where they belong' or 'where they are from'
That doesn't mean that child should remain in care, they need a lot of support/counselling etc.

Yes this. Settling for someone you’re not in love with but who is in love with you and thinks you’re on the same page would be massively dishonest and unfair. And what if you subsequently do fall in love with someone else after having children?

Plenty of relationships are one-sided, with or without children. I don't think it's uncommon for one person to love the other person more, or continue loving them after they have fallen out of love.

I don't see this as a disastrous situation to bring a child into. As long as there is mutual respect and the man is decent and would make a good father (so not just financially stable or whatever), then having a baby then co-parenting is not a bad option for the woman whose fertility window is closing and who desperately wants a baby.

To be clear, I don't think women should have to settle, and remaining child free because you didn't meet the right man in time is perfectly acceptable.

But nor should we judge women who desperately want a baby for settling, provided they are not bringing the child into an abusive relationship. A loveless partnership is not an ideal situation to have a baby in.... but it isn't disastrous either.

A loveless partnership can be a desperately lonely place to be. And babies and small children are incredibly hard work even when there is a solid romantic bond between the parents.

Increasing the birthrate isn't something that needs to be done for the good of the species. It's only raging capitalists that want the birth rate to increase for the economy and labour.

Decreasing the birth rate is actually good for the planet.

I don't think it has any more implications than the other things I mentioned

Life isn't perfect and we aren't all meant to be cookie cutter versions of the perfect family

Do you oppose lesbians convincing using a donor?

I honestly think it's fine, a woman can raise a baby alone and do a fantastic job. A married couple who go to church every Sunday, have money etc can turn out to be awful parents

There's no wrong way to live and to raise a child imo

I don't know my bio dad. I'm not sad about it tbh, i think it's other people who try to make me feel bad about it

Why do we need to increase the birthrate?

@mumofoneAlonebutokay yes I do oppose of any sperm or egg donor conception. (And yes i had investigations and it took 2.5 years to conceive my for child and I have secondary infertility for 5 years, my wants and urges to be pregnant and be a mother doesn't trump ethical issues of bringing a human into this world)

As they are thinking of themselves not the person they are bringing into this world and how it will affect them.

No one is perfect that is correct! Things happen!
But to deliberately do unethical things is selfish and thick!

@mumofoneAlonebutokay no body said anything about perfect families either I know plenty of amazing single parents (male and female) who do amazing jobs bringing up their children.

I fully support single people adopting/fostering (and the child will need a lot of support).

🙂 it's one of those things we won't agree on

I can understand the desire to find out where you come from but I think its something that's pushed on people by misogynistic men

'Do you know who your dad is though' is a saying I've heard chucked around and used to shame single mothers

It's this stigma and shame that causes troubled children imo

If I had another, I'd do it via sperm donor and would do it proudly, although I'd separate myself from people who would judge my family for that

Do you oppose lesbians convincing using a donor?

I think that’s preferable to single motherhood by sperm donor, at least the child would have another parent to take care of them if something happened to the other. Lots of situations that happen are not ideal but that is no excuse for deliberately engineering such situations in order to satisfy wants.

Children should have a right to know who both their biological parents are, regardless of the family set up. That includes a medical history. Sometimes that won't be possible (e.g. death) but it shouldn't be possible to deliberate create such a situation.

I absolutely judge it, especially if the man isn't aware that he's just being used to have a baby.

There's also little thought for this child that the woman apparently desperately wants, it's all about how she feels and what she might miss out on with no thought as to how the child might feel growing up with a poor example of a relationship with no love there.

Gosh, so many uninformed people on this thread. Population isn’t an issue globally - the world population is increasing. But it’s an issue in developed nations. We have lots of old people and not enough young tax-payers to support them! Who is going to pay for pensions if there aren’t enough tax payers? Who’s going to work in the care homes and look after the elderly?

Of course immigration is a solution but that brings its own issues.

As has been asked multiple times, do you really think increasing the birthrate with every generation is the answer?

And who’s going to look after and financially support all the elderly? We have an aging population and won’t have enough tax payers to pay their pensions

People need to remember when talking about birth rates need to remember that concepts like “The UK”, “developed nations” and “pensions” are barely a ripple in Earth’s history. Whereas the Earth’s resources and wellbeing have real long term consequences.

Not increasing, but sustaining. Ideally couples would have 2 children, one to replace each of them. Obviously some people would have more children and some none, but this is replacement theory which works best for society.