“I find women too difficult”

[calvermegan]

Having a conversation at work about funny house share stories. I mentioned I lived with 6 other girls during my uni years (we got on great and are still friends now).

Colleague said I’d hate that as I just find women so difficult and they always dislike me. Colleague is female and constantly says how well she gets on with men.

Aibu to think saying this is just bizarre? All men and all women are not the same. I’m not going to like or dislike you based on your gender.

But what’s “womaning” exactly?

This is what we mean. How do you manage to twist what she said into something completely different? We find women who aren't similarly minded to our more black-and-white way of thinking difficult to decipher and we hate having to second guess. It doesn't at all mean that ALL women do this, because we manage not to. It's not very 'authentic' of you to do mental acrobatics to distort what she said.

no men "ever hold grudges"
ok....

OP, your colleague (and a few posters on this thread) sound like the definition of 'pick me!' 'and 'I'mnotlikeother girls,' women
Of course you are right, OP.It's fine to have a preference for hanging out with men, if that's what you prefer, same as some people prefer to be friends with people close to their own age, or of similar social status to them, or people who they think share their interests. But to make ridiculous generalisations solely on the basis of sex and assume everyone (apart from you)falls into those stereotypes is ridiculous.

by 'you' I obviously mean the 'pick me's' themselves rather than OP, who don't seem to make the distinction that if they, as women, don't fall into the 'girls are [bitchy/mean/boring/gossipy/only interested in make up and babies] stereotype' then, by definition, not all women are like that, and if they were less determined to consider themselves special they would be perfectly likely to other find women who shared their interests and were on their wavelengths.

Exactly.

It’s no different than me (a brunette) saying I don’t like brunette hair it’s dull and boring. Then someone asking if my hair is dull and boring - with me responding no mine is the exception.

If you are 'womaning' wrong then as many if not more men are going to dislike you for it. So if men are typically lovely to you, I very much doubt its that.

They said they OFTEN find women to have an agenda and not be authentic. So why can’t I ask if they find themselves to be the way too?

I've been involved in these conversations before and the bigotry is weird. All women are [insert stereotype/slur] except me, obvs.

Despite men abusing women sexually, physically and emotionally, they're less 'bitchy', more straight forward and just thoroughly decent (like me).

You can't rationalise irrationality.

exactly. you never hear a woman say 'I could never be friends with a group of lads, they're all so boring and gross, all they talk about is football and farting.'

I think that's great, I really do.

And my best friend is female.

But there are women who prefer the company of men. My own DD. Because women are complicated and can be socially manipulative. Men are more simple. And for certain people, especially ND people, they are easier to read and understand than women.

Just because a female prefers the company of men, it doesn't mean it's about competing for male sexual attention or approval. Sometimes it's because they are better friends for that particular individual.

Girls can be really fucking mean.

You didn't 'ask'. You distorted her statement into an assumption and a poor attempt at a gotcha:

"So you also have an agenda and aren’t authentic?"

There's nothing in her post that would indicate your 'So that must mean...' conclusion. She finds 'men easier to read' doesn't in any way = her own agenda.

'Woman' also does not = agenda all the time. I get on with women who are as forthright and easy to read as I am. Those that aren't have their own reasons for not being so, and it's not a judgement, just a fact. I find it difficult to handle if people say one thing to my face but are thinking/doing something completely different. I especially get frustrated when I say something clearly and simply, and it gets distorted in a completely nonsensical way so they can push their own agenda. This behaviour isn't exclusive to men or women, but there is certainly a trend heavily weighted towards a particular sex.

@calvermegan frankly ? I have no idea.

Here's the thing...I grew up being told daily I'm girling wrong. It's not that I decided I was not like other girls , it's that I was TOLD I wasn't. Everything from how I looked , to what I liked, to how I behaved, dressed , talked, laughed etc. was wrong,wrong,wrong and I had no fucking idea why, so I kinda just sucked it up , accepted it and faked it when I really had to.

Tbf, it's just as confusing now, because you have these huge camps that believe the other is doing it wrong and lines in the sand that are absolutely bonkers.

Yes I have always found it easier living with males than females. I am female.

@5128gap they're not. Well , I haven't really interacted with many in the past 5/10 years. I have no interest in them (men in general) as friends or in a romantic way (as I have OH) so it's all very superficial and quick interactions.

In the past, some have been lovely, some have treated me better than they have treated others (took me a while to learn that it wasn't a good thing) and some(A LOT) have been absolutely fucking awful so I'm not a fan. Took me a while to get to this point though, and as a kid I did get on better with boys/had more boy friends , but then shit happened and that was the end of that one too.

I haven’t read everything you’ve said but it was never a “gotcha” moment. It was a genuinely question, so why not just let that poster decide if they do or don’t want to answer. It doesn’t concern you.

Who told you this though? The same person or different people? Regardless I’m sorry you were told that you were wrong.

I’d say it’s less confusing now surely? People are way more free to just like what they want to. This is why I detest such terms like “tomboy” and “girly girl” because to me a tomboy suggests a girl is trying to be like a boy when actually she’s just a girl who likes a certain activity.

@calvermegan it started at home with my mum from a very young age, then it continued in primary from some of the teachers and some of the girls.

By secondary I learned to fake it so I could fit in with various groups but I was only truly close with just one girl. Well two, but one of them borrowed my earrings and then pawned them so that was the end of that. There's more shit(from men/boys too which is why I don't use the "I get on better with men" line ), but meh . It is what it is.

Yes, it's a lot easier now as I've accepted I'm a convenience friend and that's ok and because I refuse to see womanhood as a prescribed definition. I like what I like , and as long as I'm not hurting anyone, well.. fuck it. I still don't fit in , but I don't need to anymore .

Don't write her off totally, it's the kind of thing I might say on a bad day.
I have had female and male bosses. The women bosses were bitchy and moody (the male ones weren't) .
I have male and female friends. I've had (way) worse fall outs with female friends than male.

Maybe I'm the common denominator 😅... but I've never been great at playing the popularity game with women like fitting into cliques. Men don't seem to have the same dynamics.

I'm quite quiet and am not particularly girly. She might similar.

honestly, yes, it does sound like you are probably the common denominator
if you've had bad fall outs with multiple female friends and have found every single one of your female bosses bitchy and moody then perhaps it is you.

not saying you're a terrible person, but if you've had one bad experience with, say, a female boss, and you go into your next job and you have another female manager, perhaps you unconsciously think 'oh great, another woman, she'll probably be horrible like Kathy was.' Then any minor thing that boss does you take note of as 'evidence' whereas if it was a male you might not even notice it. Not to mention perhaps new boss picks up on your dislike, and (consciously or unconsciously) is more brusque to you, and doesn't have the same good/friendly relationship she has with other members of the team, as a result, you see 'oh great and now she's leaving me out, just like Kathy did, see female bosses are bitchy and horrible,' and so the cycle continues.

same if someone announces to a group of women 'Ugh I get on so much better with men, women are so bitchy and moody,' unsurprisingly those women probably won't think particularly highly of her (as she's just insulted them), and might not be very pleasant to her, thus 'proving' her hypothesis.

you (hopefully) wouldn't make any other all-encompassing stereotypical views of groups of people
"I don't get on with Christians, Muslims are much friendlier.'
'I've never had a good friendship with a black person, they are so moody, white people are much nicer.'
'All short people are boring, I feel I have much more in common with tall people, despite being short myself.'
'Every boss I've had who had dark hair was horrible, but all the blonde bosses were lovely, I don't think it's a coincidence.'
'I've fallen out with every vegetarian I've ever been friends with, but never had any trouble with meat-eaters.'

You'd sound at best ridiculous, at worst racist.
So why is it okay on the basis of sex?

I do understand generalising and the point is that it is never the whole. However, I've never really could go behind these male and female stereotypes when it comes to friendship. How women are backstabbing, dramatic, gossipy, liars, drag you down, whereas men are upfront, honest, chill, fun, friendly, good banter. At least these have been mentioned in this thread.

Looking around my friends, family, colleagues, partner, partners friends, friends relationships. I seriously can't see a pattern to support this. Or maybe my definition of "fun" and "dramatic" are different.

Ugh I loathe it when women say this. YANBU.

I love women, I have two sisters so I’m used to girls growing up, all my friends are female except for 1 male who is a very good friend of mine, the rest of my male friends are actually DH’s friends. Of course there’s some women that I don’t like but In my experience male friends will never have your back in the same way that female friends will (except my 1 good male friend which is why he is still my friend). I lived in a mixed house share for 2 years of uni, the second year was with a girl and two really good male friends of mine, one of which became so bitchy (he was straight btw) and gossipy, picked his favourite housemate of the week and caused cliquiness, this was all after he had started taking drugs (he was normal until then) and then he fell out with all of us and just stopped speaking to us completley. I lived in a house of girls in my final year, much less drama!

Not sure Leonardo da Vinci's the example you're looking for; dabbled in dozens of different areas and went down all sorts of dead ends - fantastical inventions that never progressed beyond a sketch, huge building and engineering projects ditto. Michaelangelo mocked him for how much stuff he planned / imagined but never actually got done.

I'll start by saying I'm autistic because it does make social interactions and friendships difficult which might play into this.

When I was younger, most of my friends were boys because my interests weren't the things many girls were interested in at school (I played bass guitar and other instruments and was involved in a lot of band type stuff and used to spend weekends in rehearsal studios with other musicians from school but they were all male because thre werent any other girls doing it). It wasn't that I didn't want to be friends with girls but I had no interest in the music they (generally) liked, I wasn't interest in spending Saturdays shopping for clothes and make up and I wasn't interested in having a boyfriend. And those were things a lot of teenage girls were interested in but the boys weren't.

I didn't think I was 'not like other girls' but, at the same time, I wasn't and they had no interest in me either.

All I ever really wanted was a good female friend.

And that appeared to have happened for me in my 40s. I found a group of women (through music) I really connected with. I've always played in bands but I've always been the only woman in the group. Some of us (the women) decided to form our own band. I was really.happy but it was a nightmare!

It was fraught with problems. One woman refused to go back on stage for the second half of a gig because one of the others had made a lighthearted comment in the break that she'd taken offence to; I spent an evening outside a pub consoling one of the other women because one of the others had been a bit curt with her and she was crying and not sure she could stay in the band; one left one night after a gig without telling anyone and without helping to pack up because (it turned out) she'd upset someone inadvertently and felt sad about it and two of them.hpunded a woman put of the band because she'd expressed an opinion but wasn't the designated opinion expresser and was considered to be too big for her boots.

I've been playing in bands with men for years and nothing like this had ever happened before! So I left.

I became part of a female only social group. Two of the women were only interested in staying behind after gigs and seeing if they could cop off with one of the band (seriously) and the rest of us would be left standing in the cold outside waiting for them.

One of them had a crush on a man she discovered I'd dated for 6 weeks when I was 17 and took and instant dislike to me and spread rumours about me having an affair with a married man we knew.

I've had three women I regarded as friends flirting with my partner. He ignores/shuts it down but I have to say, I've never had this problem with male friends.

I appreciate I've just been unlucky. I've got one female friend who I've known for nearly 15 years and never had any drama with her. But the level.of 'drama' I've had in my life from these few experiences has really made me wary of other women. Which is a shame because I'd really.love nothing more than a few really good female friends.

These weren't young women either. All the women I've had difficulties with over the past few years have been in their 50s.

How do women who don't get on with other women because they're socially manipulative, cliquey, unauthentic, hard to read, bitchy etc manage unpleasant male behaviour stereotypes? The sexist banter, loud laddish nuisance behaviour, being tolerated just until a woman they want sex with appears when they're off like a rat out of a trap, the fake befriending to hit on you, the tendancy to solve dispute with aggression and violence, brute force in place of manipulation? Because if you're a pink and blue thinker who works with stereotypes, these are the negatives you will surely expect to encounter with male friends. Are these preferable to the female stereotypes? Or do you believe negative stereotypes are only true for women?