To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

I’m to throwing a fa run - I’m pointing out what I’ve been trying to ok t out all thread - that ‘Karen’ has evolved form its original meaning and made its way to the UK as a misogynistic slur. You and others have denied this entirely, but then have fallen down the cognitive dissonance pothole in saying it’s only relevant in black American circles.

Dear me it’s not going well for you.

And I’ll say it again - British people don’t have to care about, adopt or concern themselves with relations happening in certain communities in the USA. And they certainly don’t have to inherit a term which has turned misogynistic because of these unrelated US issues. The USA is not the center of the world. Bowing out now because I’m going to play with the grown ups.

When did I call you a Karen?

This is why I said you a throwing a tantrum. Look at the content of your posts. They have moved from rationale discussion into emotional outbursts.

Who said this:

“Ha ha you Karen!”

Certainly not I.

I am dismissing her article, because as I have said umpteen times she clearly is not fully aware of the history of the term and does not wish to be. Her position is ill-informed. Haley Freedman wrote an equally critical article of the term “Karen” and while we disagree I can respect the fact she bothered to at least read up on the topic fully.

You cannot seem to grasp that nuance because you are reading with emotion.

No.

That’s not what I wrote. Calm down and read what I wrote again. All of it.

Thats what it looked like to me

Since when are Asian women black?

You are throwing a tantrum. It’s clear in your posts and the fact they are becoming less and less coherent.

The term “Karen” did not “make it’s way to the UK as a misogynistic slur”. Unless you feel the only people that matter in the UK are white people.

100% some people only use it as a misogynistic slur (i.e they use it incorrectly) but that is not true for all communities and all lingos in the UK.

No. I don’t think that was Central Park was it?

Central Park 5 were a group of teenage black boys falsely accused of raping a white woman in the 80’s. The victim WAS raped - Trish Meili didn’t directly accuse them as she was in a coma for a long time after the attack and couldn’t remember a thing when she woke up (and still can’t I believe). TLDR: racist police and justice system prevailed but they boys eventually were acquitted. Gretchen when asked for examples of white women using white tears to falsely accuse black men presented this case. Hence the hoo-ha

That may have been the original idea but we all know that its main use is to simply shut older women down . And even if the original use was against a particular type of person, why take a nice, normal name and give it such negative associations? There is no excuse to go round calling women Karen unless it's their given name.

I promise you Asian women are very often being accused of being aggressive when they are not. Even more they’re accused of being rude when they’re not.

At least IME

This is extremely true.

Different races tend to experience different racism.

Theres no Angry Asian Woman stereotype but Tiger Mom started in reference to Asian women.

No, it was my genuine mistake. In my rush to try and find “examples” of the specific type of racism I was talking about, I hastily posted a case I clearly knew less about than I thought. My error. Annoyingly, it’s since been used to discredit the entire argument.

What do words matter? Because that’s what you’re splitting hair over. Dont you believe Asian experience the same level of racism than black women?

Yes the Amy Cooper / Christian Cooper incident was in central park.

Ah apologies you are indeed correct

But you must be incredibly naive to think it is only used against specific people . And again if a woman is a racist bully, call her a racist bully. No need whatsoever to hijack somebody's name here.

Oh sorry gretchen i thought it was an honest mistake because that amy person was also in central park and is know as the ‘central park karen’

This really isn’t a conversation I’m prepared to have with someone who can’t even acknowledge the existence of what I will call “toxic white femininity” to spare your feelings. Do some research. Speak to some black women who don’t exist as anyone’s token. Just don’t try to have that conversation with me.

Ah ok.

Thanks for that.

The wikipedia page on the slur Karen makes interesting reading, Especially in regard to Black people. From what I can read the 'Karen' slur has a long rich history of name calling within the Black community. Using different names to show their contempt.

Quote:
In African-American culture, there is a history of calling difficult white women or those who "weaponize" their position by a generic pejorative name.

So those trying to claim back the insult 'a karen', would do well to remember they are actually owning an insult which was targetted at a different race.

Now what would most people call targetting an entire race with a disparaging word? I'd probably go with the word racist.

I think it depends on their background - racism is nuanced. I think Asian women of Pakistani descent would have very different experiences to Asian women of Hong Kong descent (or others who benefit from model minority status) who again would experience racism very differently to that which black women experience (and even that would vary based on their specific ethnicity and immigration status).

You cannot just chuck everybody into one big POC pot. Which is why intersectionality is so important.

This

You read that and completely failed to understand it didn’t you.

It is not a term used to criticise white women for being white. It is a term used to criticise white women that engage in a very specific form of gendered oppression.

An entire race or just the ones behaving in a particular way? My mother is white. She isn’t a Karen. You might be white. You may or may not be a Karen. @JandamiHash is white. She is a Karen. If calling out women who see no issue in using their “toxic white femininity” makes me some sort of” counter-racist”, sign me right up.

I am sorry you are accused of aggression when are you not and this has been your experience (and others)

You think Karen is racist? Because if started with black people?