To think they call us Karen because they fear us

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I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

Yes, and most women named Karen are of a certain age.

It’s a disgusting term. I’m a teacher, female, mid-40s. I’ve been called that by male pupils more than once because I’ve had the temerity to deal with poor behaviour.

It’s used to describe someone unpleasant. Not someone people fear.

That's a narrative some people attach to it, yes, but in practice it's used against any woman who dares not to be a doormat. And it originated on 4chan as a slur against some bloke's innocent ex. You could do a MN search - there've been posters who documented this in detail on earlier threads.

Because in that instance the person was a female. She called 911 on a black man who was doing absolutely nothing wrong.

I dont know how other people use the term but in my circle it is applied to white women who pick on people of a different skin colour.

Nothing to do with age / menopause etc.

Just based on past incidents where white middle class middle aged women have behaved in a racist manner.

My DS used to work in retail and said middle aged women were by far the nicest group of customers.

To think they call us Karen because they fear us

Define ‘they’ and ‘us’.

Who’s done that?

And that’s never what it’s used for. It’s used for women who want a good standard of service

"Karen" as an insult is disrespectful, yes, but I'm not sure it's misogynistic as it refers to a very particular sub group of people who just happen to be women - the nasty kind who treat service staff like shit and who phone the police when they think a black man shouldn't be walking near them in the woods (this actually happened in the USA).

The great thing is that ageing white or indeed orange men aren't racist so they don't need a special name.

I think it may have started out meaning an angry racist woman, but it is now used so much more broadly against any woman who complains about anything.

I don't think it is to do with fear as the OP suggests, I think it is to do with silencing women. Women don't want to be branded a "Karen" in the same way they didn't want to be branded a "witch" a few centuries ago. It is a way of getting people to pipe down and not rock the boat. "You want to complain about something that wasn't right? Oh, you're such a Karen!"

This is what I understand a “Karen” to be.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/06/us/amy-cooper-central-park-birdwatcher-charges/index.html

Not all white women - just this type 👆🏼

Exactly. It's code for middle aged. It's both misogynistic and ageist.

I think you are being disingenuous here.

I agree that calling someone a Karen is misogynistic but I don’t think it’s limited to middle aged women.

In my mind a Karen is more than just being assertive, it’s railroading people unnecessarily without any sense of nuance or tact. It’s a particular breed of (female) self important busybody who always has to be right, always has to be in charge and blows relatively trivial things into big dramas.

Being assertive and having boundaries are good but knowing when to fight and when it’s not worth the candle is important.

For example: asking a plumber for a breakdown of work when you think you may have been overcharged is being assertive. Shouting at a teenage waitress in a cafe because your meal arrived a minute after everyone else’s is unnecessary dick behaviour. That’s what I would call being a Karen.

It intimidates people who can’t defend themselves, makes you look petty and usually backfires.

I think it’s just being a dick though. No need for the misogynistic word.

People call me Karen cos that's my name

In my experience, older men treat service staff the worst. Particularly those that are retired from a job where they were senior (they will often make a point of telling you this, in a 'do you know who I am' sort of way). They miss being able to throw their weight about at work and take it out on service staff.

It's not though. Younger women could never be Karens as they're just not old enough. So you could argue it's an ageist term. I'd be insulted to be called a Karen because I'd be insulted to be called old, rude, aggressive, intellectually-challenged and right-leaning in politics, which is how I would define a "Karen". It's certainly a shame for real life people named Karen.

What's the special name for men who want to deport brown children? Or make hand gestures mocking disability? Or refer to visiting the site of a mass drowning in a river as 'swimming'?

There must be a specific, gendered slur for these appalling men, surely.

I understand the history of the term "Karen". However it is now absolutely used to put women who dare to express an opinion in their place by those (including other women) who disagree with it.

Yeah I think it's calling out a particular type of behaviour, often racist behaviour. I think it's a useful term.

I think it's just more sexist crap, and a way of silencing women in general.

Plus ça change.

Just out of interest are you a middle aged woman?

I'd argue that it's not used against just any woman expressing an opinion though. They're usually middle aged. Their opinions are deemed to be outdated. It's the female-specific version of being called a boomer pejoratively.

But she's quite young and called Amy.

People using the word "Karen" have co-opted that incident to add self-righteous faux-justification to their misogynistic abuse of women doing the opposite to what Amy is doing in this video: women who are speaking out against genuine issues.

It's a common tactic used against people – in this case, middle-aged women – who speak out against injustice. The tactic involves twisting things so as to make it look like the person speaking out is in fact the perpetrator.

A political or macro style of DARVO.