To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

Again - why do you think I’m white??

And how come non racist and black women get called Karen all the time if it’s “not for them”?

Sweetie, you couldn’t be more white if you put raisins in coleslaw.

As for your second question, you’d have to ask the people appropriating and misusing the word that question.

Raisins in coleslaw? What? Nobody does that

And sweetie darling - you’re making assumptions because, well, you’re not bright enough to think outside your bubble. And your brain can’t cope with variations beyond your prejudices. Dont worry about it - we can’t all be clever!

Oh and the people who “appropriate and misuse” the word Karen do so because they want to use it in a misogynist way to silence women. Like I’ve been saying all along.

@JandamiHash

It's an abomination to coleslaw isn't it? Funnily enough the only place I've seen it is in Hawaii, white isn't predominant there.

Oh and newsflash to that last pp, I'm white, and love food from all over the world, but you do you; unconscious flippant cultural sterotypes are the worst.

It is what you said though. You used it as an example of a Karen so of course you were saying she was the accuser.

I can see the problem in the video that was being discussed earlier (Jully Black). The woman interviewing her was clearly trying to dismiss her/shut her down/make it all
about her but the police making racist assumptions about who is guilty of a crime has probably little to do with white women's tears.

Something else I’ve though of though is the fact that when a (young) white woman goes missing it’s all over the news but you never see extensive reporting on a non-white woman (or man I suppose) who vanishes.

It apparently first appeared in a book written by Amy Hua - a Chinese American woman…

She, a woman of Chinese descent used it to describe a style of parenting in some East Asian families, and to describe her own Chinese Mother.

Raisins in anything, other than the bin, is an abomination. And I’m trying to spread the word that raisins in curries is unacceptable but nobody is listening!

I've just been watching Karen Hauer on House of Games; a beautiful woman of colour, fantastic dancer, and a lovely person. I felt so sorry that her name has been used as an insult against women.

I also think if Lucy Letby had been a WOC (or fat/unattractive, fatphobia plays a bit part in discrimination) there wouldn’t be scores of people forming fans clubs to say she’s innocent

But now it’s used as an insult towards Asian moms.

Absolutely, she's a sweet, blonde nurse.

Yes, the term is derogatory - but it's not only aimed at 'middle aged' women nor is it used against menopausal women with a 'don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back'.

To my mind, the term 'Karen' is used towards women who interfere in other people's business, have an over inflated sense of entitlement and/or who are overly demanding.

But why do you need to use a woman’s name to do that?

In any case, half the posters on this thread - including the OP - had no concept of its use in calling out racism, so your pretence that we’re offended because we don’t like being called out as racist is nonsensical.

Again - why do you think I’m white??

Maybe because you said separating the terminology, used to describe Asian and Black people - as “splitting hairs”.

I find it interest that the “ oppression olympics” is used mainly by people who have privilege.

Relative privilege. Privileged in some situations vs some people. In other situations with other people, not privileged.

So for example, a middle aged white woman in Scotland being called "Karen" by a twenty five year old white man because she asked him to stop leaving his dog's shit outside her gate every day does indeed have more privilege than a theoretical black woman in the same situation, but she still has less privilege than the white man who is using the name "Karen" to belittle and negate her, and her privilege relative to a person equal in all other ways than race is not the reason she is being termed a Karen.

Are people really saying she needs to take actual misogynist and agist abuse from a white man who is wrongly using the name "Karen" as a simple "shut up woman your voice has no value here" instead of its original meaning of a racist white woman, because as a white woman she has theoretical privilege over a conceptual black person even though the "offense" to which the man is reacting was not inflicted on a black person and no black person was present or affected in any way by the exchange?

(Of course since almost all UK wealth and infrastructure is in some way tainted by the flow of wealth to Britain from the slave trade and British Empire, you could say no interaction can ever now take place in the UK that has not in some way exploited a black person or other global majority person. And frankly I would not disagree. But that is not why white men in the UK call white women in the UK Karen.)

@FlirtsWithRhinos yes, I agree with you. There is a ‘hierarchy’ when it comes to privilege and straight, able-bodied, middle class white men are certainly at the top, so have no place calling anyone any sort of name. I think that ‘hierarchy’ is what a lot of white women fail to see (either that or they choose to ignore it), which is why this conversation always goes the way it has.

Speaking for myself I understand that white women only have to deal with misogyny, not misogyny and racism, and so are better off in that sense.

What still isn’t quite clear to me is why certain behaviours are considered female only (if the two people in the Jully Black video had been been men could the outcome not have been exactly the same?) or why women are automatically assumed to be to blame (she falsely accused black men of the crime I assume, oh wait no she was in a coma, oops)

@pointswinprizes well obviously the mistake I made which you have referenced was based on prejudice. Something I’m not immune to, but I’m more than happy to admit to and learn from.

In the instance I quoted it most certainly is racist. Some of the names being used by Black people to describe a white woman they percieved as difficult appears to have been in use well within the last decade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_(slang)

Added to that, the previous posters who have tried to claim the 'Karen' meme as belonging Black people only and any other use is racist. Well if those of you thinking that want to own a racist insult. Have at it.

The rest of us will use it as we see fit also.

Where? It’s used towards all mums who appear overly invested in their child’s prowess from what I can see. And many women use it as a descriptor for themselves.

Of course since almost all UK wealth and infrastructure is in some way tainted by the flow of wealth to Britain from the slave trade and British Empire,

Estimates are 5% of GDP…

You think it’s racist towards white women? Really?

I actually feel like this conversation has had some really good communication but the idea that you have read about the origin and concluded it’s black people being racist?

Do you understand you have white privilege?

I lived in Vancouver and many friends ( large Asian population) were accused of this just for parenting.

There was definitely a huge racial stereotype they experienced.

It's not me that reached that conclusion. It is there in black and white. The idea of using a normal name as a slur appears to have it's origins in African American people from the early 1800's.

You don't know me, nor do you have any idea the prejudices or privelleges I have been exposed to.