To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

The same way you assumed everybody with no issue with the word Karen is a “man”.

But it’s fairly easy to identify those who often use “woman” when they mean “white women” or say things like “Karen never had meaning in the UK” when they mean “Karen never had that meaning for white people people in the UK”.

It’s a way of speaking that assumes white as the default or is unaware of the existence of other communities and lingos.

I’m not going to be your strawman, Karen, no matter how hard you try. Anyone with a bit of sense can read the entire thread and see that’s precisely not what I said, but keep running with it, if it makes you feel empowered.

Salt water does not harm black and brown people. Please tell us how women's tears cause harm?

Right so a WOC’s opinion on Karen, even when she DOES acknowledge the origins, isn’t relevant because…it doesn’t align with your, random person on the internet? because she accepts the word has evolved and points out that she is now what a Karen never used to be because she complains.

Shappi Khorsandi is also a comedian BTW, so was always going to use humour and reference in her article. But good to know you know better than her on the subject of racism. Clearly you think only WOC’s experience are valid as long as they align with your own. I think you perhaps have delusions of grandeur in thinking you’re that important

Here’s the thing. White women are heard in a way black women never are.

Black women are also seen as more aggressive no matter what they say, and it’s tiring to keep having to teach white people about racism.

It’s not about “not aligning”.

It’s about her clear ignorance on the topic for the reasons I stated.

Also stop shifting the goalposts. I have made no comment on her knowledge of racism as a topic full stop. But on the specific topic of the term “Karen”, it’s history and usage.

I agree with your first part but that’s not what a PP said.

The same way you assumed everybody with no issue with the word Karen is a “man”.

No I don’t

And honestly I think you’re best to find yourself an echo chamber. It clearly maddens you when people don’t and won’t subscribe to your very particular way of thinking. Even the people you purport to ally with

Are all white people the most protected group? Why the focus on women's behaviour?

I didn’t bother looking at the article (coming from you, I knew it would be some BS) but Shappi Khorsandi? She’s Asian. Notice how we’ve specifically reference “Black” people and not “WOC”, like you have? I am really not expecting a British Asian woman to understand the nuances of anti-black racism any more than I would a white woman.

It’s absolutely what you said. I asked for examples of YOUR definition of Karen which was (paraphrasing as CBA to scroll back) “white woman suing her witness to damage/accuse black people” - you gave me Trish Meili who has never in her life pointed the finger at anyone. Whilst MEN were wrongly arresting 5 black boys Trish was in a coma with a smashed skull recovering from rape. Why on earth wouldn’t you even be a little bit sorry for making that very offensive fuck up? Is it because Trish is white by any chance? Or because you just don’t want to admit you’re wrong?

You literally responded to me asking why I don’t listen when “women tell me they find something offensive” which is a very weird framing when speaking to another woman.

Also you are engaging in projection. A huge picture perfect example of pots and kettles.

YOU are the one maddened at people not all thinking the way you do. You are the one throwing a tantrum at those of us who do not see the term “Karen” the way you do.

I am fine with some people choosing not to use the term Karen. I shall however continue to do so.

Are you taking the comment out of context? I thought that was more @JandamiHash’s style.

I agree with that.

However it doesn’t change the fact white women are very rarely heard.

Rather than pitting demographics of women against each other is it not better to work together for a common cause whilst respecting intersectionalities? For example most Jewish women are white. They experience anti-semitism that non-Jewish women (including black women) will ever experience. Is it better not to have a social infrastructure where all types of experiences and aggressions are addressed as one rather than “Well mine is worst than yours”?

She isn’t ignorant on the topic - she states the origins in her article. she just doesn’t share your exact view that Karen hasn’t developed into another kind of insult. It has.

What was your reason for referencing the Central Park 5 then? Isn't familiarity with history key to these debates, or does it not really matter?

I did want to comment on that but I felt like I don’t have the emotional energy to expand on the problematic nature of the term “WoC” and differing experiences. To select a British woman of Iranian descent to comment on a term that began AAVE before moving black communities globally is…a choice.

Also because I am sure there are black women who also have an issue with the term Karen.

Oh right so Asian women are not WOC are they not? Not only should white women STFU but also Asian women? She never experienced racism of course only people YOU define as black.

You're really showing your nastiness and racism.

Notice how we’ve specifically reference “Black” people and not “WOC”, like you have?

Why you think you’re the paragon of knowledge on this topic that you think only a certain type of black woman can experience racism? You can’t even do basic reason so I don’t think appointing yourself as Decider Of What Is Racist is gonna wash with anyone

. Also LOL at you not reading an article from a WOC because I posted it, go join JHound in the echo chamber if you don’t like other opinions

Except she is. I have explained why. She sounds like she heard the word “white privilege” in relation to it bit never bothered examining the history of the word more closely.

You keep saying we don’t like other opinions but you are the only one throwing a tantrum over differing opinions.

I’m not throwing a tantrum - I’m asking you to listen to women who say it’s harmful and you’re effectively “No haha, you Karen!”.

You are getting upset because people don’t agree your exact views - to the point you entirely dismiss an article from a WOC about the Karen phenomena because “erm well well she doesn’t understand waaaah”.

Again - go find an echo chamber. Public forums clearly don’t agree with you.

So you’ve just admitted that Karen is only relevant in conversations black American people, and no other POC can have a say in when Karen can and can’t be used

So what would people in the UK need to use it for?

Also - don’t want to read the whole thread but was the reference to Central Park Karen actually meant to be about Amy Cooper?

We should all in 2025 be able to understand how racism plays out in our society. I do not think chip on shoulder, aggressive is used towards Asian women (I am not saying never, but never heard it directed at my family and have some pretty feisty Aunties) but I suspect people are aware

like the use of subservient is often used towards south east Asian woman this is not a term I ever hear black women (as a group of people) described as but often SE Asian woman are

racism isn't as simple as making derogatory remarks is it, we all know this so why be so obtuse

No to haven’t explained why. You’ve wined that it isn’t specific to what YOU believe and that a British Iranian woman’s comments on an American term isn’t relevant. BTW I agree that a British Iranian woman’s comments on black American issues isn’t relevant - but then again my whole point is that Karen means something different in the U.K. (which you deny). Surely if it’s about black Americans then it has no use in the U.K.? So why are you using it towards British people?