To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

That youre wrong.

Id ask you to explain why you think that. Because it seems to be that I don’t subscribe to the term Karen.

What would you say if I ask you why you are labelling a rape victim who through no fault of her own, had police have 5 men wrongly convicted of her rape, a racist?

Same

People on this threads think she deserves it because she has privilege though 🙃

Women aren't the most protected group in society, and your Central Park 5 example was shameful and embarrassing.

But you’re the only one talking about racist violence and equating it with the totality of racism.

No, you’re wrong - I’m talking about incidents of racism. Which by and large are not normally accompanied by violence. These are mostly perpetuated by men. That is a fact backed up by statistics.

Racism that IS accompanied by violence is also almost exclusively perpetuated by men. That is a fact backed up by statistics.

Which is why i remain baffled that middle class white women are the ones who apparently get the badge of a slur.

And of course your second paragraph is another key tenet of Karen behaviour - prioritising the feelings of white women in a discussion about racism.

Not at all. I’m simply saying racism against black men isn’t generally perpetuated by middle class white women and therefore they shouldn’t be sorry for it. I’m using this based on facts not feelings

*Actually the most likely victims of Karen behaviour are other women, for a few reasons:

1. it is a power and privilege dynamic - and whereas white women will sometimes have power over men of colour, they much more often have power and control over women of colour;
2. Karen behaviour is often manifested in social circles - which for women is more likely to include other women;
3. Karen behaviour is often exhibited in service settings, which are disproportionately staffed by women - and particularly by working class women and women of colour.*

Again, this is little more than hearsay or one sided contextless TikToks. I have worked in the service industry and lived as a woman for 40 years all over the world. I have never seen the above. I see men being aggressive all the time and you haven’t once mentioned the damage they do to women of colour and other men. It’s all the white women’s fault apparently.

Do you have any statistics to show “Karen behaviour” is perpetuated by white middle class women. Or are we going down the “How DARE you ask for facts, feeeelingz only matter here” route?

Do you even have a definition of “Karen behaviour”? Are you nearly half as concerned about the actually provable AND anecdotal VAWG that men perpetuate that almost every woman can describe and document? Or are you just out to get the women?

Exactly.

And they could give a flying fuck about POC, they just want to stick the boot into women.

I haven’t claimed the contrary. Not once.

Try again

Exactly.

There’s a name for people who whine that women aren’t oppressed

I actually can’t believe @GretchenWienersHair isnt mortified and apologetic for saying a white woman committed a false accusation against black men when in fact she was recovering in a coma after being almost beaten to death and raped, and someone else did the accusing.

Imagine having so little shame.

It also shows just how dangerous this term is. A woman who did nothing wrong at all is being labelled racist and “a Karen” because it’s SO easy to throw that term around.

Were the grumpy middle aged women usually getting food for their tired hungry kids? Meanwhile, were the younger men usually getting food for themselves while hanging out with mates?

Middle aged women are usually juggling 100 things - no wonder we check up on an order!!

Yes but I wish they didn't use a name any name. Should have invented a term for it. I feel sorry for people called Karen.

Thats quite the Double Down 🙄. Just not having the same effect is it? Must be quite stressful to have to accept that these weaponised accusations of racism no longer achieve your goals. I’m so glad they don’t. Maybe eventually we might actually have essential discussions about race that reach some kind of resolution, and that don’t involve division, and toxic shaming of well meaning people who are NOT racist. People of any colour who want to live harmoniously and whose only sin is not adhering to this one note, damaging discourse around race. that just doesn’t work out here in the real world. Not going to hold my breath though.

No. That’s not what happened.

A woman was driving, and the other woman stopped her car in front of them and approached the driver screaming at her that she was a bitch and to get out of the car and fight her.

The man got out of the passenger side and was trying to get her to leave.

she kept screaming at him about “ his stupid bitch”, he started to walk back to the car and she attacked him.

He then threw her to the ground where she stayed until they drove off.

He was not right to throw her but let’s be clear she tried to fight another woman and then attacked her passenger when he was leaving.

Imagine defending male violence against women. Gross.

I haven’t seen this video, if indeed it is the same, but I find women rarely kick off for no reason, but when men hit women it’s usually entirely unecessary.

Yes, exactly this... the name is men! 😂
On a serious note, it is both archaic, and shocking that this is still happening to women today.

The people who use it are generally thick and uneducated. I wouldn’t go to them for advice so why does their opinion matter 🤷‍♀️

I mentioned to a previous poster to ask these questions of people outside of their demographic.

Someone should post on Black Mumsnetters for example - do a poll of how many people on there have had the experience of a white woman starting an argument for example - and then as soon as they receive a retort - they burst into tears - and the aggressor becomes the victim.

Experiences like this are prevalent enough to be given the term “white tears”.

This is not based on any theory - just people’s lived experience - which of course you may not be aware of.

So I’ve just googled the video.

The woman was rightly angry for being tailgated in icy conditions. Yes she should not have slapped the man but my god his reaction was extremely violent and uncalled for. He could have easily killed her.

Why are we applauding these men rather than jailing them?!

And we are supposed to believe we are the most protected group

I was thinking more misogynist or incel but yes men and handmaiden will do 😂

You are the one wanting facts. Those are the facts.

A woman tried to attack another woman. A man stepped in and the woman attacked him.

He fought back.

Do you have statistics on how many white women have been wrongly accused of being a “ Karen”.

As for why we don’t have records of black men killed due to lynching by accusations is because who do you think is keeping notes?

Same goes for black men who’ve had the cops called on them for being black. Who do you think is keeping stats? The white police who have a long history of killing black people?

I am curious to know if you think as a white person you have white privilege?

Do you think white privilege exists?

What evidence is there she was even tailgated?

She literally tried to fight another woman. Referred to her as being the man’s property and then attacked him when he was walking away.

Do you think she should be in jail too?

Also women are not the most protected group, but white people as a race are.

The discussion I saw said that she was tailgated aggressively by the man, who was in the same vehicle as the woman. Whether or not they were in the same vehicle, I don't know without checking again. What we do know:

There is no indication this was about racism.

A man threw a woman to the ground and left her lying there in icy conditions.

She was the one mocked and called a Karen.

Your agenda is so distorted that you're happy to defend male violence when it suits.

No, a woman slapped a man and he reported with extreme violence. Thats not fighting back, in any way.

Is that ok? Would it be ok if a woman didn’t it to a black man? Where the name for blokes like this?

Twist it whichever way, you’re defending a violent man. Does it feel good to do that?

Do you have statistics on how many white women have been wrongly accused of being a “ Karen”.

I can certainly provide statistics on how many women are victims of misogyny. Which is what being called a Karen is.

But wait - I thought the voices of the oppressed was enough proof? Why aren’t you listening to the many women on this thread who are telling you to stop using Karen, they don’t like it?

As for why we don’t have records of black men killed due to lynching by accusations is because who do you think is keeping notes?

So you genuinely think that in the first waves of the KKK it was women carrying out the lynchings? And that 100 years later British white women have to take the flack for that?

The white police who have a long history of killing black people?

Again, read carefully: The USA is not the centre of the Universe. What has this got to do with me? White police? Where? Show me a “white” only police force.

am curious to know if you think as a white person you have white privilege?
Do you think white privilege exists?

Why don’t think I’m white??

You might be surprised to hear but yes I do think white privilege exists. White people will not face some of the struggles black peoples do based on their race. It would be wrong to say otherwise. But this is VERY different from saying white women as a class oppress black men. Because they don’t.

Now - do you think male privilege exists? And who is that privilege over?

‘No longer achieve your aims’.

Yes because people of colour highlighting racism in a majority white society has historically resulted in them being taken seriously and only now has that changed.

Get real. People making the points that I and others are making have always been dismissed by middle class white women because it’s much easier for them to imagine, as you have, that hate crime stats present the most realistic picture of the state of racism. Because they can tell themselves that they have no culpability, no contribution to a deeply racist society. They’re just nice, respectable white women who would never beat someone or say they didn’t like someone for the colour of their skin.

If you think this is some sort of change you’re proving (yet again) that your understanding of the dynamics of race and racism is - pun intended - skin deep.