To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

Oh now you’re keen on evidence. Interesting

I absolutely believe she was being tagged because nobody kicks off like that for no reason.

Nono don’t think she should be in jail because I don’t think slapping someone who is screaming in your face after squaring up to you is a jailable offence. He basically tried to kill her. Two different things.

So where does this leave white women? They suffer the effects of male privilege and male violence - being white doesn’t protect them against rape, DV, workplace discrimination, unequal pay or sexual harassment for men - including black men. And white men.

But you haven’t highlighted racism. You’ve perpetuated misogyny and excuses some pretty shitty behaviour.

You saying it doesn’t make it true.

hate crime stats present the most realistic picture of the state of racism

Ill wait for the ones that say it’s middle class white women who are the problem

Your ‘proof’ that racism is a male problem was hate crime statistics.

You’ve consistently conflated racism with the particularly egregious behaviours that are sometimes but not always manifestations of that racism. You’ve even referred to racism as something that is perpetrated, as if it is some singular, criminal act.

You have very obviously never engaged with discourse about race and racism.

White women are, in general, more privileged than women of colour.

Your ‘proof’ that racism is a male problem was hate crime statistics.

What other proof do you expect?
And can you offer any to the contrary?

Those statistics include non-egregious incidents BTW

You’ve even referred to racism as something that is perpetrated, as if it is some singular, criminal act.

crimes are perpetrated. You’re getting a bit desperate now trying to use semantics to trip me up. It ain’t working

You have very obviously never engaged with discourse about race and racism.

You have very obviously never engaged with how all women are effected by VAWG if you think women are The Problem

Yeah I have.

You just don’t like it because you don’t want to acknowledge that repeated dismissal and minimisation of the experience of people of colour, repeated efforts to make the discussion all about the feelings of white people are manifestations of racism.

Because if you did you’d have to confront that you’ve engaged in that specific behaviour just on this thread.

And…

I asked what this means for white women.

What do they miss out on - or gain - as a result?

Tell me something that isn’t abstract - what should happen to women as a result of white women having white privilege.

And do you think male privilege exists?

It’s interesting nobody responded to my point of “Can I make up a name for Asian men because a minority partook in grooming gangs with white girls as victims, and refer to ALL Asian men who don’t behave perfectly, as this name”?

Is that allowed?

Or are women only subject to being shit all over due to a small minority?

Can’t find the video (there’s so many Karen videos not sure which one it is) but let me guess - A man and a woman get into a fight, the man beats on the woman and we’re all meant to laugh and cheer.

Amirite?

On a worldwide basis that's demonstrably true, but for MN posters in eg Scotland like me, it's weird to be asked to accept sexist slurs because of unrelated American history.

Not sure why you think there is a singular problem.

Yet another attempt to police anti-racism. Not allowed to address a specific manifestation of racism unless you’ve first addressed the form of racism that middle class white women are comfortable calling out.

But at least you’ve accepted that you’ve conflated racism in general, and criminal manifestation of racism.

You’ve used evidence that the latter is a male problem to claim that the former is a male problem.

And by the way no I don’t need to demonstrate that racism is a woman problem because I haven’t claimed that it is. I’ve claimed - rightly - that there are multiple manifestations of racism, some of which are predominantly male, and some of which are predominantly female.

You don’t think white women in Scotland have privilege compared to women of colour in Scotland?

Right so let me get this straight-
You can say “White women are racist” and it’s true

But when women of unspecified race say “Using the term Karen is sexist” they’re told…that they’re racist?

You just don’t like it because you don’t want to acknowledge that repeated dismissal and minimisation of the experience of people of colour, repeated efforts to make the discussion all about the feelings of white people are manifestations of racism.

Except this hasn’t happened. Because this is a discussion about a sexist term. You and a few others - who let’s face it aren’t the sharpest tools in the box - have tried to imply the sexism is justified because some racism happened over here in this corner of the world. I don’t agree with you. That doesn’t make me anything other than a person who doesn’t agree with you, no matter how desperate you try to make me look racist.

To clarify - I’m not gonna be bowing and scraping and being ever so embarrassed and sorry for being a woman, and apologise to all those people whose experiences I had nothing to do with. So you may find yourself sorely disappointed

That’s the one. He’s defending himself apparently by lifting her off the ground and slamming her into ice after she barely slapped his face for the risking her life in the car.

But she deserves it because women’s or where else have been racist. We ALL answer for ALL other women’s mistakes donchaknow

To start with, white women should listen when women of colour tell them about their experiences of racism not just at the hands of white men, but also its particular manifestation by white women.

And yes, of course male privilege exists.

I didn’t say white women are racist. I said some white women are racist and it manifests in behaviours typically labelled as linked to being a Karen.

And I said that people of colour have a right to use a term to describe that specific manifestation of racism and to call it out.

And I said that you, in particular, had demonstrated all of those behaviours on this very thread.

I don’t think there’s a singular problem. You’re making things up again Arnold.

Yet another attempt to police anti-racism.

Not at all.

Ive never told you to stop posting. I just don’t agree with you.

Not allowed to address a specific manifestation of racism unless you’ve first addressed the form of racism that middle class white women are comfortable calling out.

Again who is middle class and white? Is that what you think all mimsnetters are?

But at least you’ve accepted that you’ve conflated racism in general, and criminal manifestation of racism.

No I don’t accept this. Again stop making things up, you’re embarrassing yourself.

You’ve used evidence that the latter is a male problem to claim that the former is a male problem.

Racism an violence is almost exclusively perpetrated by men. Shall I pretend it isn’t? Is that what you’d prefer?

And by the way no I don’t need to demonstrate that racism is a woman problem because I haven’t claimed that it is.

Well you kind of are. You’re claiming Karen is justified because white women pose a threat to black men. Ignoring and denying of course the fact black women get called Karen’s and women who have not been racist at all are called Karen’s.

I’ve claimed - rightly - that there are multiple manifestations of racism, some of which are predominantly male, and some of which are predominantly female.

And how does that justify ‘Karen’? There are instances of black men raping white women. Would it be ok for me to give black men a special name that we use to mock ALL men especially the black ones?

White women DO listen. But listening doesn’t have to mean accepting a misogynistic slur being acceptable and mainstream.

So you believe male privilege exists. Who are the victims of male privilege? All women? Or just WOC?

And I said that people of colour have a right to use a term to describe that specific manifestation of racism and to call it out.

Actually they don’t.

Or if they do white women have a right to call it out. and in turn make up names themselves. Again can I make up names an out black men because they use their male privilege to rape white women sometimes? Fairs fair, right?

And I said that you, in particular, had demonstrated all of those behaviours on this very thread.

That’s your opinion and it doesn’t mean shit to me

https://youtube.com/shorts/HiBlw4WQfQo?si=f9B5tj2OWvWe-1Qp

No one is innocent here.

The man should not have attacked her.

She should not have attacked him.

This isn’t a great example of a woman experiencing misogyny when she’s literally calling a woman a man’s bitch and trying to fight her.

Also, I’m not going to speculate on if she was or wasn’t tailgated, but resorting to violence and trying to beat up another woman is not ok.

I had never seen this video before but I don’t see this as a clear case of misogyny unless the woman was also a misogynist.

Of course there’s misogyny. Because he would not have treated a man like this. If this was a 6’5” burly man getting out his car, that little pipsqueak would have cowered in his car and driven off. He used his male privilege to attack this woman.

I didn’t say white women are racist. I said some white women are racist and it manifests in behaviours typically labelled as linked to being a Karen.

What you're saying is:

Karen means an unpleasant woman (often this translates as 'someone whose opinion I don't like' or ' a woman who is asserting herself').

Racists are unpleasant.

Therefore the term Karen is fine for everyone to use regardless of context.

I'm wondering how many posters on this thread are American and projecting American culture wars onto a wider context.

Using a persona’s name for black men would frankly be a step up from the N word.

Plus who gets called thugs? Black men.

of course male privilege exists and black men are protected by that.

The same way white privilege exists and white women are protected by that.

As for Asian gangs and names minorities get racial slurs.

There are lots of ways to refer to minorities someone disagrees with.

What slurs do white people get called?

Becky?
Chad?
Karen?

I mean if you want to talk about evening the playing field in terms of slurs what is the equivalent to racial slurs for white men and women?

You don’t know that.

Plus if that’s the case why didn’t the woman get in the car and drive off?

Also once again he was the passenger.

Do you think the woman in the video should be arrested? Why or why not?