To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

100%

Its already been used in an examples of racism where the situations were absolutely nothing to do with women.

We cop the blame for EVERYTHING

If that was your aim then why did you reply to me asking for examples of Karen’s with a rape victim?

Saying “Duuuuh that’s not what I meant actually!” Isn’t gonna cut it. Everyone can see the thread of messages. I directly asked for examples of Karen’s. That’s what you gave me. Disgusting

And there you have it. Everything I’ve said just summed up in a few words.

I didnt say that.

If it helps I am the “wrong” side of 40 as well.

I was trying to provide an accurate albeit different view of how the term is used in my circles.

I think a lot of us are saying these are isolated incidents yet an insult for these kinds of people have gone global.

The standard for women is so much higher than it is for men

“I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.”

This is such a weird narrative to me - the idea that women are quiet and acquiescing until they stop menstruating, and then some kind of switch flips and they’re bold and speaking out. That doesn’t line up with the behavior of women I know. The go-along-to-get-along types are like that regardless of age, and so are the ones willing to voice objections.

”Karen” is nasty when used as an insult, but I don’t think people fear middle-aged women.

@InformEducateEntertain very dismissive post.

You are more concerned about the wording / terminology instead of the fact that people are TIRED of being abused by racist middle class women.

Exactly. I see it all the time on social media. The women who do it are pretty thick though, and pathetic 'pick me' types.

By coincidence I just saw a thread on Facebook by a woman whose real name was Karen, but who called herself Katherine because of all the sexist abuse associated with 'Karen'. She was begging people to stop using her name, which is shared by a lot of ordinary women, as an insult.

I have only known one lady called Karen in my lifetime, and she was lovely! She was one of the least judgemental, least complaining people I have ever met. Oh, and she was really kind too!

But lots of people of colour disagree with you about how rare it is for a particular form of racism grounded in weaponisation of fragility or vulnerability by white women to control people of colour.

The experiences of many people of colour on this is well documented. I posted one article on it - it’s widely covered in some books many folk on here could do with reading (Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race; and Everyday Racism).

The constant dismissal of those experiences is telling,

But lots of people of colour disagree with you about how rare it is for a particular form of racism grounded in weaponisation of fragility or vulnerability by white women to control people of colour.

And I as a woman disagree that it’s ok to coin a term that’s steeped in misogyny

White women as a class are not harmful to black men as a class. Or black women. It’s men committing almost all of the violent crimes and perpetuating the vast majority of racism. I’d rather look at statistics than feelings - when we live in a patriarchal society we cannot rely on feelings when it comes to views of women.

Also that theory only floats for particular communities in the US, yet the Karen phenomena is global. I can’t imagine the “ female tears oppress people of colour” nonsense works in Saudi Arabia or Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan.

The experiences of many people of colour on this is well documented. I posted one article on it - it’s widely covered in some books many folk on here could do with reading (Why I’m no longer talking to white people about race; and Everyday Racism). The constant dismissal of those experiences is telling

Sinilraly the dismissing of women telling you this is misogynistic is very telling. You expect people to listen to black voices. Why won’t you listen to the voices of women?

And you posted an opinion piece, which was essentially a very woke whine from a problematical and demonstrably sexist university group. The ’case studies’ bar one were little more than third hand half cut videos from TikTok. Nobody has to take that “article” seriously.

But lots of people of colour disagree with you about how rare it is for a particular form of racism grounded in weaponisation of fragility or vulnerability by white women to control people of colour.

That's irrelevant to 'Karen', which is a general sexist insult and can be applied to all women regardless of race.

I’m also not sure people of colour appointed anyone here as their spokesperson

Also that article posted earlier was written by a white woman

Right? How is this not known???

https://innocenceproject.org/emmett-till-birthday-pervis-payne-innocent-black-men-slavery-racism/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/white-privilege-is-used-by-women-against-black-men-as-a-tool-of-oppression

i love this man’s honesty.

www.theroot.com/15-times-white-womens-lies-and-hysteria-cost-black-peop-1850709332/slides/5

That is literally how the term originated. The unwillingness of white women in the UK to at least acknowledge, and the veracity of the original usage, has been eye-opening.

For the record I am a proud feminist.
I have mentioned before how much I value the amazing women in my life.

I think most women are strong and creative and resourceful.

I also think it’s absurd to pretend that racism hasn’t given white people ( including white women ) a privilege black people and other people of colour don’t have.

Quite.

And it’s not a term for all women. It’s a term for a specific type of racist white women.

It's pure misogyny. A disparaging term used to stop women standing up or making a fuss.

Of course some women are racist or unreasonable or get it wrong - but so are some men. And where is the disparaging term for them?

It is interesting to hear an explanation of the origins of Karen, thank you for explaining that. I absolutely do not agree that this is now the word is commonly understood or used. It is in fact widely used to tell older women in general to shut up and shame them into taking up less space with absolutely no racial implication. I do find it problematic that women have a label but men don't. Almost as if it isn't men leading all the racist political parties/ implicated in most violent crime including racially motivated crime.

Obtuse racial roots to a popular phrase does not prevent the phrase being widely used in a misogynistic way or prevent it indeed having misogynistic or patriarchic implications itself. To respond to racism with sexism isn't exactly noble. I haven't read the article but clearly BME women are objectified at least as much as men. I still really want to know why there isn't a male version of this name, it is nonsense to suggest that a female name used against women to shut them up is gender neutral.

I'm not sure people have denied that's how it started. I certainly agreed that it was. But that's not how it's used now, in the UK at least.