To think they call us Karen because they fear us

[InformEducateEntertain]

I absolutely hate the term Karen. It's pejorative and deeply unpleasant.

Middle aged women (of whom I am one and to whom the term is most generally applied) are bloody amazing. Putting us down for our don't give a f**k badass attitude and willingness to fight back strikes me as lazy categorisation.

I'd go as far to say that those who use it are scared by the knowledge that looking the menopause in the eye has given us the courage to have a voice at last.

AIBU?

Again evidence has been requested but all that’s been given is a newsletter article and someone using a rape victim as evidence of “white women leveraging their whiteness to police the everyday behaviour of black people”

Also why would people know?? This “white women use their whiteness to falsely accuse black men” is in issue that affects certain communities in the USA. Why would people outside the USA know or care what goes on? Do you know the specific issues of communities in Chile? Or Eritrea?

What have these cases of men’s violence got to do with the term Karen, or women?

An opinion piece. Can we deal in facts please. Where are he thousands of documented cases of white women using their whiteness to falsely accuse black men?

As I say we can’t rely on people’s opinions of women as a class when when we live in a patriarchy

At best this is a sexist response to racism. More generally its just another way to shut women up.

Right let’s break this down

Firstly, an opinion piece with no sources from a biased website

Secondly, misogynist language in the headline alone

This: A doctor testified the girls showed signs of sexual intercourse but not of rough treatment.
Well they can’t possibly have been raped then

2 cases where MEN were the perpetrators

2 from 100 years ago

2 contextless TikTok videos with an allegation and nothing more

6 women who did not actually make false accusations against black men, not even sure why these women are in there given the article title

If you are saying there are thousands of documented incidents (not allegations or contextless videos or 100 year old crimes) the world over that justify a widespread misogynistic nickname of women how come you can’t produce little more than opinion pieces?

But that’s not true.

I’ve never seen or heard of a woman of colour being described as a Karen. Precisely because it is not a catch all term for all women of a certain age as claimed on here.

I believe that is your experience. It is quite possible we all have different experiences and the term has been appropriated outside of specific cultures, people aren't 'claiming' things they are explaining how the word is used more widely for them. Whichever way you look at it the whole idea of an insulting word for one gender is sexist. Wrapping it up in anti racist language doesn't change that.

It’s not about acknowledging its origins, it’s about saying the widespread slur has become justified.

Its like me takin the grooming gangs (a FACTUAL widespread issue) and making up a name for Asian men because I’m “sick of them preying on white girls” and applying it to Asian men all over the world. Would you be telling Asian people to accept it and suck it up?

Also black men are a subsection of men. They’re a subsection of a hugely problematic and oppressive class. I won’t pretend that the class they oppress is actually secretly the bad guys here.

A proud feminist doesn’t share an article with a misogynist word in the title

Nobody is saying racism doesn’t exist. But white women as a class do not oppress black men. All the statistics in the world will point to this being true

This is a UK forum discussing a concept that has emerged in the US. Dismissing it because it’s not relevant in Saudi Arabia is really clutching at straws.

The rest of your post is nonsense sound bites. You can choose to ignore the ‘feelings’ of people of colour. I think those ‘feelings’ are a far better gauge of different manifestations of racism than some random poster online whose go to dismissal of something she disagrees with is to label it woke.

And the claim that we should only be focused on more egregious examples of racism is nonsense. One of the positive things to emerge from the last few years is more awareness of different manifestations of racism.

Of course white people only want to focus on the most egregious manifestations - the violence, racial slurs, blatant discrimination. That can make us all feel nice and reassured that we aren’t racist. It gets more challenging when discourse turns to the more insidious manifestations because it is much more uncomfortable for nice middle class white ladies to confront the contribution they may make to endemic and systemic racism.

So why is it now only ever used for women who make complaints?

I’ll tell you why - because a slur on women, even Bad Women or racist women, made by people with good intentions, turns very quickly into a catch-all insult. And what do people do - tell women to STFU about it or else they’re racist

So because a few women are racist it justifies a sexist term becoming widespread?

Woemn here are telling you that all kinds of women are called Karen? Why aren’t you listening to them?

If this was a thread about how the term Karen is misused you’d have a point. But it’s not.

If posters on here were simply claiming that using the term Karen against women simply because of their age or for making perfectly reasonable requests no one would be disagreeing. We may disagree on the extent to which that is a problem but the principle of it would not be contentious.

But this is a thread decrying the existence of the term in the first place.

And that is just another example of the policing of language used to describe specific manifestations of racism, which is not, in my view reasonable.

Because this isn’t a thread about whether misuse of the term is a bad thing.

Its a thread decrying the existence of the term in the first place.

Your constant minimisation of the issue ‘a few white women’ and your constant centering of white womens experiences over that of people of colour, including women of colour, is actually a pretty clear description of the sort of thing the term describes.

Please point out the posts decrying the existence of the term in the first place. I see lots of people respecting that.

This is a UK forum discussing a concept that has emerged in the US. Dismissing it because it’s not relevant in Saudi Arabia is really clutching at straws.

<sigh>

Im saying a word that derived from the behaviour of a few women in America is now being applied to women worldwide, and you’re defending that. But clearly there are places where women couldn’t possible “weaponise their whiteness to accuse black men”. Do you understand what I’m saying?

The rest of your post is nonsense sound bites. You can choose to ignore the ‘feelings’ of people of colour. I think those ‘feelings’ are a far better gauge of different manifestations of racism than some random poster online whose go to dismissal of something she disagrees with is to label it woke.

I prefer statistics and facts over feelings. And the facts point to men being the problem when it comes to violence and racism. If we built societal structure based on feelings then women would be fucked because we live in a patriarchy that hates women

Of course white people only want to focus on the most egregious manifestations - the violence, racial slurs, blatant discrimination.

Who are you talking about and on behalf of

That can make us all feel nice and reassured that we aren’t racist. It gets more challenging when discourse turns to the more insidious manifestations because it is much more uncomfortable for nice middle class white ladies to confront the contribution they may make to endemic and systemic racism.

Statistics point largely at men being racist over women. No I won’t accept a demographic that isn’t a demonstrable part of the problem taking the blame. You can choose to handmaiden all over the ship but I certainly won’t be

A word aimed at one sex is only sexist if it doesn’t have any grounding in reality.

The term Karen describes a very specific manifestation of racism that is specific to white womens.

Just like women are generally not referred to as ‘gammons’, because that describes a very particular type of manifestation of male generational entitlement and obnoxiousness.

A "Karen" isn't just a middle aged woman, it's someone who is acting rude and entitled and unreasonable, and no nobody is using the term because they fear "Karens" - usually they're laughing at the Karen/looking down on how ridiculous the Karen is acting.

So wait - we have to say “We hate the sexist term which damages actual women called Karen but hey some women once behaved in a racist way so we know we, unrelated British people, have to bear that cross”

However you boil it down, this comes down to blaming all women for the actions of a tiny few. No we won’t accept it

I’m not minis using anything I’m saying it doesn’t happen often enough to justify a sexist slur to go widespread.

Do you expect me to grovel and scrape and apologise and say “Oh he’s terrible sorry for those women, a sexist term is only what we deserve!”. Ain’t gonna happen. I don’t talker the flack for other people’s mistakes and I certainly don’t pretend women are the problem when statistics show it’s men who are

Here again you’re minimising the issue and centring the experience of white people.

No - the term Karen is not used ‘world wide’. It is not commonly used in Saudi Arabia precisely because the dynamics it describes are not a prevalent feature of life in Saudi Arabia.

You’re also doing that minimisation not only of frequency and impact (‘a few women’) but of what constitutes racism. When you say that the stats show men responsible for racism - ironically without posting any evidence - I’d be willing to bet that that is based only on the most egregious manifestations of racism as I said. The violence, the slurs. Of course you’re still not getting (or pretending not to get) that people of colour are entitled to discuss and describe manifestations of racism in all its forms, not only the most egregious ones.

A word aimed at one sex is only sexist if it doesn’t have any grounding in reality

So I can call all men Rapists now can I?

I totally agree. I never use bitch, cow, old trout, mare etc etc.

As women we have to fight against misogyny. Including internalised misogyny.

The term Karen describes a very specific manifestation of racism that is specific to white womens.
No it doesnt