To be really glad I don't live in America right now

[AnonymousBleep]

I really feel for ordinary Americans. It's bad enough on this side of the Channel, hearing daily about Trump's latest petty, spiteful, idiotic bullshit - that rant against the Bishop who asked him to have mercy on immigrants, the ridiculous and insulting attempt to blame 'diversity' for the plane crash - but living under it must be so much worse. And heaven help you if you're LGBT or a woman. Or an immigrant. Or not white. Or poor. Or anyone else Trump and his freakshow of a government despises. I moan about the UK all the time, like everyone else who lives here, because god knows it's far from perfect, but at least we don't have a government in charge who is trying to strip huge swathes of the population of their rights and citizenship.

You do get that it's a democracy and "ordinary Americans" voted him in

How is not wanting men in women's spaces arguing against our own interests?

WTF is GC

I wouldn't live in the US under ANY administration as none of them will take on the Gun Lobby

He won the popular vote in the sense of getting more votes than his opponent, but he still won under half of the popuar vote (admittedely, only just under). Just over 48% of voters voted for Harris, and there was an independent candidate. So, yes, he was legitimately elected; but there are an awful lot of people who are devastated by the resukt, even in America.

One danger to the entire world is his health policy, and his appointment of anti-vaxxer RFK Jr as Health Secretary. Viruses know no borders.

When he said "grab them by the pussy"

Plus being a sex offender would suggest he doesn't respect a woman's bodily autonomy surely?

Yanbu OP. He's batshit and has made America the laughing stock of the entire world.

We certainly do have problems but at least we won't be invading any other countries any day soon. We'll have more problems if Trump does as threatening and slaps a bunch of tariffs on us. I'm sure he's telling America that our streets have been taken over by rampaging Muslim hordes so the US probably does pity us.

Another danger to us all is his plans to massively ramp up fossil fuel extraction.

Not in itself, but if it's treated as overriding everything else, so that it's fine to abolish women's reproductive rights; to press women to stay with abusive husbands; to get rid of DEI, so that women are less protected against sex discrimination in the workplace; etc. Not to mention voting for a president who is well known for his lack of personal respect for women and their spaces.

It should be noted that a majority of women didn't vote for Trump. while a majority of men did.

I agree with this. I think one side has become too idealistic and out of touch, and has caused a radical swing to something awful. I don't support Trump at all, I think he's horrific, but things like accommodating illegal immigrants over citizens, examples of which have been documented, will never go down well and will cause a reaction.

To be fair, out of a population of 200m+, the best they could do was Biden (default to Kamala) or Trump, it wasn't a great choice, was it?

As a gay immigrant (green card holder) in the US, I appreciate your sympathy. I am generally a very optimistic person, and cope with stress very well, but this is nothing like I've ever experienced in my life. To those who say that it's what the people wanted, I really don't think it was, and many of the states, including my own, have been shamelessly gerrymandered over the years to give opportunity to the republicans, making it actively harder for democrats to win elections. I also think Joe Biden's vanity in not grooming a successor right from the start has also contributed to what we are facing now. I am optimistic enough to think that it will blow up in their faces - prices are very unlikely to go down and with the tariffs many things are going to be a lot more expensive - so I am hopeful that the midterm elections in 2 years time will change the balance of power in senate and house.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise it was bad form for people to robustly defend their own positions on an internet forum.

It's also a fact that there are a lot of bad actors with their own agendas popping up with hard right talking points. I was on a local town FB page recently and Trump was mentioned and suddenly all these new posters (clearly not from the town) popped up in defence of him.

Gender Critical.

ie you think there are 2 sexes not innumerable 'genders'

@AnonymousBleep

I said for years before the Brexit referendum that if there was one, we'd be out of the EU Perhaps. But an awful lot of people didn’t see it coming though, did they? Enough of them to pipe up every time someone claims that it was what the majority of the country wanted.

I also predicted Boris Johnson becoming PM long before it happened Well that wasn’t a great surprise really, was it? The nation has always had a bit of a soft spot for him, despite what he gets up to, he wanted to be PM, he went to the right school and he was friends with the right people. Even Derek Acorah could have seen that one coming.

None of that changes my view that Britain is essentially a centrist country and there just isn't support for any kind of extremism in politics, left or right. I’d agree with you. But when you’ve got the Tories changing their leaders more often than their socks on one hand and Labour being utterly insane on the other, and then good old Nige comes along in his salmon coloured trousers, a pint in one hand and his ‘I’m a celebrity’ shirt in the other, and tells people that it’s ok to be concerned about uncontrolled immigration etc, then he comes across as a very central party leader and not an extremist at all. He’s an excellent self publicist. Not every voter goes that deep into the negatives of each party. Surely that’s evident by the fact that the candidate with the conviction was elected? Lots vote on face value. This party are crap, that party has said a few things I agree with, let’s give them a whirl. I think that is what happened with Trump and I wouldn’t rule it out happening with Reform.

As for Farage - no it's not worth engaging with him. And as he's never in the country and does no constituency work whatsoever, I can't see the people of Clacton voting him in again. I know people in that constituency. They're not impressed. Reform has no real policies or plan beyond a lot of shouting. And one of their MPs shouldn't have been elected at all, given he's got a conviction for battering his girlfriend (and we're supposed to think these people care about grooming gangs, LOL) I agree with you about their policies. But I think you’re underestimating your foe, and as a Labour supporter, that’s going to come back to bite you on the bum when Labour are out and you’re looking around you in shock because you can’t believe it has happened. I think you’re also underestimating how badly the Tories and Labour are appearing to the general public right now. When Reform is looking like the best of a bad bunch, we’ve gone very wrong somewhere. And that starts by refusing to engage with him, rather than showing his policies up for the empty promises that they are.

Of course you can defend your position!

But just saying 'I'm right, you're wrong and I refuse to take on the fact that you are entitled to an opinion' just alienates everyone and doesn't boost your argument

It is just as easy to say that you are a radical far leftist bad actor, which I am not claiming, but it makes as much sense to say that as you continuing to deny that many simply completely disagree with you.

It is time to let go of the notion that everyone who disagrees with you is a bot.

People are disagreeing with you because they disagree with you and they have the right to robustly defend their positions on an internet forum.

Exactly what @Nanny0gg and @meh2025 have just said.

You refuse to engage with the opinions of others at your peril, because you lose sight of what other people are thinking. And that’s what opens the door to people like Trump and Farage, who do pretend to care about the ordinary person in the street and who do pretend that they’re interested in what they have to say.

Where am I denying that people don't agree with me? Obviously not everyone agrees with me, otherwise Trump couldn't possibly have got in.

I just don't think he's good for America or what a majority of them actually want. Their democracy is pretty shaky (as is ours, but theirs is visibly even easier to game). A majority of people don't want Labour - or any of the parties, they almost never get a majority - but we've never treated a Prime Minister like they're the Second Coming and they don't have presidential powers anyway.

Now you are being disingenous. As you know, you have made it clear that you think that people who disagree with you are often bots and bad actors.

People had their own very good reasons for voting for Trump. Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them stupid, a bad actor or a bot.

Instead of making dramatic statement about being really glad you don't live in America right now, why not ask those who voted for him why they did, and listen to them and engage in a conversation.

YANBU, but they voted him in so they will reap what they sow.

How am I refusing to engage with the opinions of others? I'm engaging with you right now. I don't agree with you - not on any point you've made so far, including how valuable it is to engage with Trump or Farage. The latter wouldn't have got the traction he has now if institutions like the BBC hadn't insisted on 'engaging' with him - in fact, disprortionately so, given his minor status as an ex MEP, particularly during Brexit. He was given a platform he hadn't in any way earned and exploited it.

You're entitled to your opinion, obviously.

And where have I said that everyone who disagrees with me are bots and bad actors? I haven't. I said I was expecting them - as I have seen them on other forums - but show me where I've pointed the finger at anyone?

Why don't you start that thread? It wasn't my choice but there's nothing stopping you from doing it.

Now this thread, like many others, is illustrative.

We are supposed to be talking about the all-encompassing awfulness of Trump.

Instead we've pulled into an argument about why it's OK to be more harsh on 0.1% of the population.

Never mind the impacts on immigrants (and anyone who looks like they could maybe be one) or people of colour, or the fact that women have lost their bodily autonomy in many states and several have already died utterly preventably (some leaving living children behind) because of laws that say it's better for a mother to die and take a foetus with her, even a totally unviable one than it is for her to live and that foetus, that could never live anyway, be terminated in the womb.

'But trans rights is a cover to destroy all women's rights'

Why would Patriarcy need trans rights? Why?

It'd be like waging war by stabbing one enemy in the leg with a pen-knife when you had the capability to drop a nuke on their whole country. They didn't need trans rights to end Roe v Wade.

And no 'because they hate women, that's enough reason' does not make it make sense.

What I'm saying is, can people put things in fucking proportion? OK, you hate trans people (well, be honest, mostly trans women). The chances of you even meeting one are fairly low. Can people not at least put this on the back burner until some more major issues are sorted out?

Because every time you ride in to go 'But at least these people are saying there are only two sexes' you help them do everything else that they do, because you turn the conversation away from everything else they do.

Actually, 49.7% of the 64% of the voting eligible population that turned out didn't see the problem with him.

A lot of the rest of us, plus, presumably a similar portion of the non-voting-eligible population, do see the problem with him.

Adding to the OP, I hope you're right, but as an American in the UK, I have deep concerns about the possibility for an angry radicalised move toward Reform here. Musk is certainly giving it his best shot.