To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

There’s so many factors it’s impossible to make a sweeping statement.

Yep.

I'd be much better off if I'd never had children.

My mum would be much better off if she never had any kids.

I see you’ve met my brother.

Agree with previous poster, too many factors to make a sweeping statement like this.

Well, yes, we are biased to think about immediate pressing needs and forget about boring long term sensible choices, so if you are short of money and short of time you can't see the wood for the trees and it's hard to have the bandwidth to sort things out. The book Scarcity gives really good examples of this.

what system are you referring to?

Depends what you mean by ‘broke’ - but to be clear that poverty is not a choice, it is never is - literally google that phrase and you will see what I mean.

Yes, I suppose I could sacrifice my severely disabled dd for the sake of my finances. It would certainly free up a lot more time so I could work.

DH could even move up to that promotion he was offered, which meant less time with us but more money (he was worried that if I got no respite at all on the weekends that I'd snap, bless him).

Is an altar required or do we just burn them at the stake in the old fashioned way?

Ds could even finally get that playstation he wants.

(Yes, yes, I know you didn't mean disabled people or carers of course... but you have no idea of how many people you are judging where physical/mental illness are a factor in their poverty do you?) And with attitudes like this we get judged all the same anyway).

Yes and no. Too vague to say yes really.

I know smokers who always complain about having no money - I do think maybe if you tried to quit youd have extra money per month.

I moan about my savings a lot but then proceed to buy coffee or lunch on my work break, so yes I’m guilty for that.

Of course those people who spend to the max every month aren't able to save.

I think your relationship with money is formed as a child. I grew up in a FSM family of seven. There was no money even for basics. As a result I save, even if it means limiting my month, eating very basic food. I need some money in reserve or I don't sleep nights.

Others who grew up in a world where wealthy parents always stepped in with funding and came to the rescue, I can imagine, their instincts are different and they are more happy go lucky.

Everyone will be on a sliding scale between the two extremes.

Echoing PPs - impossible to generalise.

See also good health, resilience, environment etc.

System is at fault and designed to screw over a proportion of people.

Isn't that just the... obvious? You can say that about anything in life.

Some people work hard and some don't. That is true of poor people and wealthy people. It's also clearly the case that it's easier to be wealthy if you had a good start in life (good eduction, supportive parents, gifted money for deposit so you don't have to rent for as long etc.).

I’m very wealthy.

Can you tell me what sacrifices I’ve made, please?

This isn't about people spending potential house deposits on avocados, is it? 😁

It's very difficult to comment seriously OP as it depends on so many factors.

I was thinking more about the economic system - things like wages, cost of living, and access to opportunities. But I know different people have different perspectives on what holds them back financially.

Is this another "avocado toast and Netflix" argument?
What choices are you referring to? Not to have kids? Give up a disabled kid for adoption? Not to get cancer which leaves you unable to work? Rent a cupboard under the stairs instead of a room/flat/house which meets your general needs? Walk everywhere instead of using overpriced public transport? Take out a massive loan to afford university?
What choices specifically are you talking about?

Absolutely. We throw away so much money on non -necessities like holidays, flashy cars (instead of a runaround) fancy clothes, eating out, takeaways etc. But life is for living and it would be depressing to live frugally forever. Saying that moderation is key. If we have a nice holiday one year that would do me another 3 years. Buy the odd nice treat here and there. The amounts of debt people are in to keep up with the jones' is insane!

There are definitely too many people in poverty thanks to the ‘system’ but yes I know perpetually ‘skint’ people who always seem to have their roots done, nails done, tattoos, lips, trips away etc. people don’t want to make do anymore. When I bought my first house I lived alone and some months when I had large expenses I basically ate jacket potatoes and stayed indoors. I don’t feel people are willing to do that anymore

But the avocado thing is relevant. If someone buys their lunch every day instead of making a sandwich at home, or drinks a lot of alcohol in the evenings, or buys clothes and can't be bothered to send them back if they don't fit, they are making decisions.

Life can be hard, though. Someone might rather have that bit of time in the morning. They might feel they need a drink in the evening.

You can believe whatever you like, if it makes you feel better.

But all the serious research in this area shows that getting yourself out of poverty is very hard and the system is structured to favour the already fortunate.

For every person wasting their money on nonsense, there are dozens working very hard in a system that holds them back.

I agree. I eye roll when people scoff at this argument as it’s a pretty sound one. Generations before us knew that looks after the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves.

I recently checked out how much I spend on treats from the shop on an evening, it was hundreds every month! I didn’t even realise as the odd fiver doesn’t feel like a big spend

I'm not so sure. I got a promotion at work and the difference in pay wasn't much but it made the difference between no savings and occasional debt and building up a comfortable savings buffer in a fairly short time. I have more luxuries now, but I'm actually able to set aside quite a bit. I thought I was just bad with money beforehand, but it turns out that I was just poor and that given slightly more money I can save plenty without having to try all that hard.

I’m not saying that every financial struggle is due to bad choices - there really absolutely circumstances beyond people’s control, like illness or disability. But in other cases, personal decisions do play a role. For example, prioritising short-term pleasures over long-term stability, living beyond one’s means, or avoiding opportunities for career growth. Do you think personal choices never factor into financial situations?

It is expensive ti be poor. The common cheap primark shoes vs the good quality that will last. This extends to everything from closing to light bulbs.