To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

I doubt about the safety pin trainers. I am sure the school would take a dim view of that.

Go on money saving expert.
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/

There are lots of easy access savings accounts paying better interest you just need to open one. Current accounts never pay good interest rates they aren't intended for savings.

Even places like Starling offer these sorts of rates.

Low wages and high housing and energy costs actively limit people’s choices by reducing their ‘disposable’ income. People can’t choose not to eat or not to travel to work, if necessary.

There are some people that prioritise flashy cars and holidays, but you’ve got to have a LOT of disposable income even to be thinking in those terms. Demonise those people for not saving all you want, but remember that they are in a teeny tiny minority. The majority don’t get to choose.

Well yes but what is the point of life?

I have relatives who prioritise frugality over living life. They eat mouldy food, they buy my kids £1 gifts for celebrations (they are very close relatives) they've afforded a big house in a nice area and they have money saved for theri care. I don't want their life, I envy their financial stability but I don't envy the mouldy food, the lack of generosity, the focus on money over all else.

The idea that it is wrong to be lavish and right to be frugal needs to go. Enjoying stuff and experiences, choosing to go short elsewhere to enjoy and yes feeling 'skint' and talking about it is fine. There is a push at the moment to make average and poor people poorer, to shame them for things from wanting their kids to go to ballet class or to wanting to eat avocados to expecting to be able to afford stable property or access average healthcare

There's an increasing attitude of 'who do you think you are?' . Well who they think they are are the wage slaves propping up the capitalist system while people who contribute nothing in both business and politics accumulate wealth. We need to reevaluate our system. Neither corporations nor individuals should be able to accumulate wealth to the degree they do now without significant redistribution via tax, The pressure on individuals to do better is misplaced.

One of the biggest questions we should ask about a person is 'what has your life contributed to the world?' not 'how much money do you have?'

4% of nothing is still nothing.

It’s both simple to work your way out of poverty and almost impossible in the UK. Both perspectives can be true at the same time. For someone resourceful, ambitious, and driven it’s possible to compromise on some things, rotating them until you get the next step up and have some more breathing space - for others, ill health, a few knocks when they lack key support ( good friends or family) to keep their spirits up can send them in a downward spiral.

it is still true however, that opportunities are out there, you need to make the system work for you even if that means changing and counting the pennies does work. I think some basic steps are unfathomable to some people- unless you saw your parents budget its hard to make sense of it from outside plus you need to budget for each day whilst imagining a better future - something you can need sufficient head space to do. It’s easy for a short time when you are saving for a goal and have resources - the problem is the poor health of many ( caused by poor food) and the cycle that pulls them ever downwards.

No, it's a whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precariat

I was responding to a poster who implied giving up luxuries to save around £30 per week wasn't worth doing as it would only save £1400 a year.
Of course there are people who literally cannot save a penny but there are plenty of people who could trim out a few £4 coffees and ubereats deliveries, and reduce the frequency of their regular hair cut and colour if they truly wanted to save some money.

Its silly to claim every single person hard up at the end of the cup absolutely could not have saved a pound 🙄

My parents made all the sacrifices. Both in what would be min wage jobs now. But they were busy squirrelling money away for a rainy day/ us. Got 25 year mortgage on a teeny house in 1970. Paid off by late 90s.
Stayed in the teeny house.
Kept squirrelling.
He got dementia. All the squirrelling has paid for his nursing home.

I'm terrified, absolutely terrified, of not having enough money. Certainly haven't got a year's wages saved. About 6 months.
But, I also want to live while I can. So I will go on a cheap family package tour every year. We bought the next size up house. We're not broke but we'll never be rich. We'll end up in shit nursing homes too.

Yes, I suppose you could have two jobs and at the same time spend no money on leisure, killing two birds with one stone because you'd have no leisure time anyway and your life would be shit.

We are.

This sits really nicely with the 'sick people just have a poor attitude' post we've already have today. It seems so easy for people to kick down these days.

Some people grow up with such poor parenting that making sensible choices is something they never see.

Some people live on places where affordable food can't be bought.

Some people struggle at school because of undiagnosed learning difficulties and never earn much.

I could go on, life is not as simple as those of us with caring parents and a good education experience it for many many people.

I think the point is some people would choose that option for a short period to generate themselves some more choices and wouldn't see it as making their life shit, they'd see it as short term pain, for long term gain.

Eg might work 2 jobs for 6mths to save money to pay for a training course that might then enable them to secure a promotion such that they can earn more in their principal job going forward.

Or taking a second job to pay off debt that's costing them a lot in interest? Nobody is suggesting everyone work 2 jobs all their life and never spend any money.

It's true a lot of people do and it's true a lot of people don't.

Yes. Lots of people make poor choices in life.

Such as wanting to have more fun as a teenager rather than doing "boring" things like homework and exam revision, so end up leaving education with sub-optimal qualifications which restrict future career options.

Such as "living for today" and spending rather than saving, often on unnecessary tat etc., or getting into debt, etc., rather than saving first and being more choosy about what to buy, delaying purchases to avoid hefty interest etc.

Such as not wanting to take promotions, or better jobs, to improve career prospects because they want to stay in their "safe" simple job.

Such as sticking to simple employment rather than risking setting up self employment or a business, in terms both financially and not wanting to risk the large amounts of time needed to do so.

As a middle class white woman, with a chronic condition that luckily does not affect my life too much, I have had a lot of personal choices and options available to me. I’ve made some excellent and some poor choices, but overall I’m luckily doing pretty well and I have a family safety net to fall back on if things ever became dire (I could move in with my parents for example).

I know how privileged I am, and I don’t take it for granted. I know that many people don’t have the same options, or a safety net. Yes, people have choices, but mine are more plentiful and more likely to end in a good result than others. For example having an abusive partner and no available money to leave is a choice you can make, but it’s not an easy decision and the outcomes are far from ideal.

The system massively favours those who are intelligent and have family wealth, and both are mainly down to privilege.

Unfortunately all the other systems are worse.

This is an excellent example of why the original question is extraordinarily comple x to answer fully.

On any thread about care costs, there are plenty falling over themselves to opine about the righteousness of paying one's own care costs, and factoring in that eventuality to their daily and working life.

My poor MIL (terminal end stage dementia but in the same bracket as Cher and cockroaches as of today, bless her) desperately wanted her son, my now late DP to benefit from her hard work and proceeds from her modest, less than 100 grand flat. Obviously didn't happen. She's been in her home for 7 years. The money ran out after about 2 years. They now hoover up almost all of her pension every month.

Those who never accrued assets for whatever reason are at the mercy of the system from cradle to grave, and for many it's despite trying to make the right choices but suffering series of unfortunate events. The more complicated life has become, the more the goalposts change, the more difficult it becomes to achieve security.

There are no easy answers, but the idea that everything financial can be solved by just making better choices is extraordinarily naive, based on both my own experience and observation.

Ahh, it makes sense now.

I can confirm for you that lived experience of extreme poverty does indeed bring a different level of insight.

You make your financial choices based on your financial education. And that education is normally handed down to you from your parents. You cannot begin to imagine the sort of financial education you get when you come from a background where there is no cash and no choices to be made. What appears to be an obvious choice to you as an adult with cash is not necessarily such an obvious choice to people from such a background, unless they have clawed their way out of poverty by their fingernails.

You’re very careful to qualify your posts by saying ‘some people’ and confirming that you aren’t speaking for everyone, but your posts don’t sound like you really believe that. You’re coming across like one of those middle class Marys who had to shop in Aldi and cancel her National Trust subscription so she could pay the bills one year, and now thinks she knows what it’s like to be poor and so is suitably qualified to tell us where we’re going wrong.

I was quite poor when my daughter was little because I was a single parent and wanted to drop her off and pick her up from school. So I think I did make sacrifices, I sacrificed money over my daughter, had to stay in a dead end part time job through primary years which meant I couldn’t buy a house etc, was living pay day to pay day but she had a fantastic childhood with cheap holidays etc so don’t regret a thing.

I agree OP some people do but on balance i think most people don't.

I think back to my former neighbours, we had identical very small houses and our DC were friends. They were renting and often complained they could never afford to buy. We had bought and they seemed envious of this. Their kids got new designer shoes every month on pay day, Santa got them at least 5 times what our Dc got, they had takeaways delivered about 4 nights a week. Meanwhile we were saving for a larger house and everything was second hand, cooked from scratch, used items sold on etc. Our lifestyles were incomparable. It's fair enough, these are life choices but I'd have little sympathy if they said we were luckier and they didn't have a choice about their situation.

I agree to an extent- DBro and SIL have a lower household income than us but both work term time only and one does school hours so no childcare costs. SIL gets her nails done fortnightly, Botox, lip filler and highlights at a salon. She then says she has no money but I’d put all those things in a want not need category. Gel nails aren’t a basic necessity. If it makes her happy great but it does make me laugh when she says she’s broke!

Or giving up work to spend more time with children in the early years, reducing your pension pot, experience and chances of promotion. You could survive it and thrive with a great family, or you could have a partner who is earning all this time and eventually leaves you with nothing.

Many things are trade offs and people may be willing to sacrifice this for the non-financial benefits they bring.

I’m glad I worked hard at school, but then I discovered going out, meeting people, travelling - I had a blast! I didn’t get the grades I was predicted, but I had so much fun and it gave me other skills such as confidence, social awareness, the ability to easily make new friends and communicate. Yes, I didn’t get into the uni I wanted, but I would not change it for the world. I used these skills to get a good job, make great friends and I have a good quality of life. I have prioritised fun rather than saving, but I think my life is all the better for it.

Not everything in life is about just making money.