To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

Yep, that's true. But the media don't tend to show people who are genuinely struggling through bad luck. In my experience (working class but not poor background) those parents who need their kids to have a bed will make sure they have a bed of some sort before they have anything themselves. I know plenty who grew up very poor but they had the basics. Even those 'feckless' parents put their kids first. And i witnessed some proper poverty back in the 70s/80s. I am under no illusion how hard it is but the OP's post was about can people do more to help themselves? And this was my example of how not working and being skint but still having another baby was the classic example of not helping themselves out of poverty.

George Monbiot is good on this.

You are 100% correct, I can live very frivolous and even paid the mortgage off 11 years early but it meant alot of drastic sacrifices for many years, no holidays, no going out, learning to literally scrimp on everything I guarantee there are only a few people that could go to the drastic limits I did but now it's done its like a massive weight it lifted and now I can do the things I want without even having to worry. I'm 45 now and never missed a day off work because that would have effected the plan and now even if I lost my job I wouldn't get stressed in the slightest. That to me is priceless.

Life is full of choices. So what. I wanted to travel at 28 and not 68 so I spent money to do it. I could have more money but I have beautiful memories of me scuba diving, which I physically couldn't do now.

It's a fact that no one on their death bed says 'oh thank god I was frugal'

Yes and no.

Of course someone can make sacrifice but it is for “something”. In this case, they see money as not a good enough reason.

I heard something lately. “If you have a dream, you need to sacrifice for it. Otherwise, it is your dream that is sacrificed.”

Good luck 🌺

NRTFT.

I chose to be married to an unambitious man who never wanted to sell our flat and move to a cheaper area to get a house when the market was on the rise. Now I am divorced, my ex is living elsewhere and the market for flats has sunk so bad I can't sell the thing. It's currently on for £50k less tban at the height of tbe market pre-pandemic. So yes, that's on me, my biggest asset is a chain around my neck.

I also spent money on holidays instead of saving the money because the ex encouraged me. He was very convincing. I do have a decently paid job, but not much in savings (a month's wages at best) and if it wasn't for support from my boomer parents I'd be truly fudged.

Definitely true in my case. Can’t save because have compulsions to spend money and do things that I want all the time instead of making sacrifices. Feel guilty about this but it is not easy to change.

Poverty is at times possibly due to bad decisions but is difficult to escape in the current economic situation. An illness or precarious work, leak in roof, suddenly got nothing. Nothing. One of my cousins works in education in an area that's been very hard hit, was part of the govt committee but sod all happened. Hope labour up the funding.
We think we're being canny by snapping up those sale bargains to keep.our dc toasty and well equipped but you can't come up.with spontaneous purchases if you've got nothing. And you can't expect some to be able to organise themselves just because you can.

Not sound argument at all. The avocado and Netflix examples proliferated to argue that people could afford houses if they gave those things up. For a lot of people, you can make as many home lunches as you want, avoid buying treats, give up holidays - but these will never compensate for the fact that the cost of houses is massively out of proportion with wages. My dad could buy a house on a single income in the 80s and he was a production line worker. Yes, he worked incredibly hard and sacrificed a lot but his first house was 2.5x his salary, not 5, 6 or 7. There are people out there who don't want to make sacrifices but I think these are not the majority. The system is the far bigger problem.

Yes and no. Some people have very limited choices and have nothing they are able to sacrifice. Others make choices and then complain about the consequences.

It's a sound argument if it's applied to those who do have choices.
That's the whole point of the Op
House prices are hideous WE KNOW
But so is the current, constant targeting of people's vulnerabilities.
Add the Tory policy of quantative easing post 2008/9 and the subsequent cheap borrowing and here we are.
An awful lot of people are servicing unmanageable debt, for what?
Stuff that is long gone

My own DD has seen the light, is kicking herself and now is budgeting , well on the way to a house deposit.
I also think there is a tendency for those who manage money poorly to want to crab bucket others down with them.

I don't not mean people who are trapped in poverty

Well, I didn't actually say it had to be forever, or that you have to give up everything - most people recommend having 3 months living expenses as savings, for example. So if you were earning a decent wage and you did have the excess money to spare, you could give up takeaways for a year, or only go on one holiday rather than 3, or keep your old phone once your contract had expired and go on giffgaff for a fiver a month rather than getting the brand new iphone for another £60 p/m contract, and once you'd saved up enough you could then go back to regular spending.

I also don't really get how having a car on finance makes your life more exciting tbh. Note I didn't specify that having a car on finance itself was the issue, even though it's not the most financially prudent way of doing it. If it's the only way you can afford any car, fair enough, although I would still argue that not having a car would be inconvenient rather than "boring". It's spending £1100p/m for a brand new range rover (or even £700 on a new citroen) when you could get a 3 year old ford for £400 p/m that I was referring to.

If having a fancy car that stops your life from being boring, go for it, it's your money. But surely anyone with a brain will understand that if you then don't have much money left over each month that's due to your choices.

I’ll be totally honest, it doesn’t make my life more interesting to have a better car. I’m materialistic and like having things, and don’t drive cars over a certain age.

I wouldn’t claim it’s responsible, or even particularly mature, but I’m the sort of person that would far rather have what I want now than have money sat in the bank gathering dust.

Saving up a “pot,” but being restrained with my spending in the meantime would honestly not usually occur to me.

I can and do save for tangible things, but I’ve never had a rainy day fund, I’d have already spend it before the rain arrived.

Which is of course your choice.
Personally I couldn't sleep at night if I had no savings and so much of what people spend money on is short term tat.

So many of these responses are seeking out offence. OBVIOUSLY a lot of people are not poor due to bad choices. That is not the point of this post. Quite clearly a lot of people spend a lot of their disposable income on sh!te and then complain they have no money. It’s a bit of both!

Daily Mail… is that you?

So when the storm breaks over your head, what do you plan to do? Go into debt?

It's your choice to behave in a short-sighted way, but that doesn't alter the fact that you are leaving yourself very vulnerable to unexpectedly losing your job or whatever.

No - I’d plan to live off that months salary, and my final salary, until work was found. Which would likely be fairly quickly.

The choices I’m making can be changed in emergency.

For example, I left my husband 3 years ago - I therefore went from paying half the household bills and food etc, to all of them.

The increase in costs was covered by making a spreadsheet, cancelling various things (including my ASOS delivery subscription for a start), and shopping on a budget etc. The money I waste now will be nothing compared to a few years ago, my disposable income is far less.

It may be potentially more irritating to know this but I can do it, I choose not to.

Sweeping statement , do you mean the people who claim UC and rent relief and unemployment benefits etc ?
because they make so much more than working in an a low paid job and trying to work their way up
i really believe there should be a different system, if trapped in that situation, it would be so much better for benefits to be topped up for a period of time say 18 months or more .
whilst actually working.
i have worked my whole life never claimed anything, but know people who have never worked ever who run cars have holidays etc
and when a boiler breaks or something similar it’s not even their problem,

Who are these people on UC that are getting more than someone who works? Don't include people on disability related benefits.

Under your proposed system, what happens if someone is not in a better paying job in 18 months? They lose the top up? Some jobs are absolute dead end roles... there is no scope for progression, and not everyone wants the added stress of promotions etc.

I know two !!!

Is it housing costs bumping their benefit up?
If you think life on benefits is better, then go on them.

In theory, there are some sacrifices I could make, but the little amount of money it would save me just isn’t worth it IMO.

If I gave up eating out, cancelled all my subscription services, only shopped in Lidl or Aldi, and got a cheaper phone for a year, I’d only save a couple of grand, but my life would be a lot less pleasurable and more inconvenient.

Two grand savings would be a better move though.

I think some families are in genuine poverty and and I can't comprehend how hard and difficult this must be, with little way out.

Some who claim to to be in poverty wouldn't be if they made different choices on what to buy. I know several who claim to find it difficult to feed their kids but go and get hair and nails done every month, go out drinking, have £60 phone contracts. That's not poverty, thats choices.

Obviously education and jobs are affected by choices, opportunities, family expectations and positive input at early age could help improve these.