To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

Oh this thread again. Imglad things are currently going well for you, but please bore off

Yes I'm sure someone working for minimum wage or around there (which is now a LOT of people) could eat more basically/ not have any entertainment and save maybe 30 quid a week. In a year that's a grand total of 1400. What's your point? They only need to live frugally for about 30 years before they van afford things like a house deposit 😂

What are you hoping to get from this thread?

This.

Far too many variables.

There have always been and always will be people who are happy with their lot and don’t care to strive for more. It’s only a problem when these people are claiming benefits to pay for their choices. Otherwise if people are happy to only earn as much as they need to get by, then good luck to them. It takes all sorts to make a society.

by your reasoning all children should get the same exam results as they all sit GCSEs having been taught the curriculum but it is not as simple as that is it? There are so so so many vairables, Quality of teaching varies, schools priorities vary, home lift and input from parents varies, children's own personalities and priorities vary.

Money is the same, you cant even really compare 2 people doing the same job as they are so many external factors, some completely invisible that have an impact.

Often people just cannot run fast enough to catch up. We wouldnt be able to afford our house now and we only bought it 4 years ago! We wouldnt have been able to save up the increase in equity and afforded all the bills and living expenses etc. not even if we forego sky and and our once in a couple of months takeaway!!

Oh this is really not grounded in fact.

Generations lived in a completely different economic system. You're comparing apples with pears.

In my town house prices have risen from three times a single wage to ten times a single wage. Rents are astronomical.

No amount of fixing zips and eating leftovers can fix that.

Mine also. Brags about his earning but has so many debts his disposable income is almost non existent, then he wastes that.

Currently paying £50+ a month on a phone contract he doesn't use because he pawned the phone and didn't have the money to get it back in time.

Needed a sofa and instead of getting something to suit his budget spent thousands.

Yet will ask to borrow £20 for cigarettes because he's skint.

TBH it genuinely doesn’t bother me if people claim benefits on rider not to work. I don’t blame them. I’m far angrier at the billion pound tax dodging corporations.

Also if you begrudge benefit claimants you begrudge what I think are the biggest ones - pensioners

Sometimes they do, but I hazard a guess that for vast majority they don't. I have a good salary, I aggressively targeted promotions. I don't overspend, have nothing on credit, drive an old car... and yet COL and relationship breakdown left me with fuck all to show for it at the end of the month. Yes, technically, I could have made a choice to stay in an unhappy relationship... but for what? Extra £300 in my bank account?

There are people on or below the poverty line with new iPhones. So they could improve their financial situation by having a basic phone model. However, if they had a basic model, they would still because of other factors be below the poverty line.

So OP has made a sweeping statement, with some truths.

Yes but why do you feel the need to focus on the 'undeserving poor'?

Far more people are working very hard.

Your desire to blame the individual is about you.

I sometimes watch episodes of the Ramsey show on YouTube. A lot of people who don't have a clue and are really bad with money, start saving and following a plan, manage to get out of tens of thousands of debt and save for retirement.

Clearly, if you give some people a bit of financial education and a goal, they can make massive changes.

Sometimes the advice is literally "get a better paying job" though which is obviously easier said than five.

I don’t begrudge people like that, I just have no respect for them but that’s not their problem. Pensioners are different because they aren’t in a category of people who have the power to improve their earnings in future, and they have already contributed.

That depends if you're talking about the actual meaning (not making enough money to meet basic needs) or whether they just don't have enough money to meet basic needs because of choices to spend on things which aren't basic needs and lack of understanding around budgeting and getting into debt.
Realistically there is very little definition based poverty in the uk. There is a lot of lack of functioning then leading to issues affording basic needs.
Unfortunately lots of children don't get these life lessons at home and so ideally it should be covered at schools.

Not all pensioners have contributed - there’ll be more SAHMs who never worked in today’s pensioner generation than there’ll ever be again. Also benefit claiming isn’t a new thing, some people have claimed since the 70’s and not worked

For sure, it’s a massive topic, I’ve done a lot with the Poverty Truth Commission - I just wanted to draw the distinct between broke/skint and poverty because they are not the same.

I'm currently sat in the dark on a borrowed phone having sacrificed everything to test your theory. My bank account has not yet grown, I'll keep you posted OP x 🕯️

Give it a few more days, I hear the money tree starts growing around week two. 🌱

Way too many factors!

What I pay attention to is the advert that your association with money and finances is developed by age 7.
We teach our 6 year old to save and his school have had bank programmes go in to teach about savings, budget etc in a way they can understand.

For the coffee and avocado people.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/society/2022/02/boomer-mathematics-why-older-generations-cant-understand-the-millennial-struggle-to-buy-a-house

I see plenty of private school kids with safety pins holding their trainers together, being driven to school in beaten up cars, conversely I see many state school parents driving top of range Land Rovers. People value different things, but money isn’t always the defining factor, it’s class.

The thing is the social contract has gone.

Years ago they may have saved hard but housing was cheap. Now they work hatd and lucky to be able to afford a 2 bedroom flat. The social contract has gone taking the motivation with it. Like treading treacle for a lot of people.

What is 'definition based poverty'?

In the UK there is plenty of absolute poverty and plenty of relative poverty.

Obviously the previous government got rid of some poverty by no longer keeping a record of it, but only the hard of thinking fell for that.

Poverty is everywhere tbh, it's tough out there.

I think there’s a ‘poverty tax’ to be factored in too.
The less well off you are the more you pay.
some examples-
utilities - dd costs less than a pre pay meter- meaning the least able to pay, pay most.
credit - poor/poor credit - very expensive to borrow.
car tax - paying by DD costs more than paying for a year up front
mortgage - often les than rent, so poorest pay most and are trapped being unable to save.