To believe that some people stay broke because they don’t want to make sacrifices?

[ForSharpBrickKoala]

It’s hard to save money but isn’t it true that a lot of people could improve their financial situation if they made different choices? AIBU to think it’s not always about the system?

It's a cute trope but not true. Private school parents are on average significantly wealthier than state school parents.

Good article - thanks for sharing.

(Caveat - not all boomers - my parents don't/ didn't think like that, and missed out during the golden years)

Having kids makes you broke 🤣 you could rent a cupboard and save so much money if it was just you and work 70 hours a week without having to worry. I mean that's it really.

But once they're here you can't exactly sacrifice them can you although I think the Aztecs did

Just because people have wealthy parents doesn’t mean they don’t learn how to manage money. Often people are wealthy in part because they can manage money, and some will teach their children to do the same.

I know a few people on relatively low incomes who seem to constantly be shopping, getting their nails done etc which is all a waste of money in my opinion but it's none of my buisness. And I don't judge them either, they are people that I like. If they want to stay broke that's entirely up to them!

Yes, I think many people would be better off if they made different choices.

I know this firstly because I know I myself would be better off if I was more disaplined and planned better. This is a low level of this problem but quite real - I struggle with self-disapline with money, and also potato chips.

And I know many people in a similar boat to a greater or lesser degree. I know the people down the road from me, for example, would be much better off if they stopped buying cars or motorbikes and such, and instead payed their rent and oil bill.

Oh no someone's not already whipped out the "anyone can send their kids to private school if they just bought clothes from the charity shop" have they?

Nevermind the fees are more than most people's annual wages haha ditto for if you have more than one child.

Totally reasonable, I'd even say obvious! You did say 'some people' and I'd say 'many people'. Neither of us is saying ALL broke people are irresponsible fuckwits.

I'm an irresponsible fuckwit, though. I'm broke and cannot shift my tobacco addiction. I'm pathetic 😳

Some people live on takeaways they can't properly afford, some buy more clothes or household crap than they can afford, some should go camping instead of four-star, some are addicts like me. It's a complicated world.

The definition of poverty is not being able to afford basic needs (such as shelter, food, essential bills to live)
The uk has a welfare system unlike many other countries which provides enough for essential needs in the vast majority of cases (including emergency council housing etc)
However, a lot of people end up in perceived poverty month to month because of a lack of ability to manage finances and budget/prioritise essential needs.

Mumsnet is full of wealthy people who love to berate low earners. Yes maybe some of it is poor choices but there's a lot more to it than that. Not everyone grew up with parents who helped them out, guided them to be successful. Encouraged them to do well. It is so much harder when you have no support or parents who can't cope with life themselves.

Of course you have to make sensible choices on a low income and there are plenty of irresponsible people who dont but everyone deserves a treat every now and again. Going by mumsnet we shouldn't be going for that coffee once a week with a friend, we should just stay at home and have tea and toast.

Totally. I had a broke friend and the way she spent money on unnecessary things while in serous credit card debt blew my mind. At the time we were friends she had a minimum of 300 dvds. Her justification was that it was to save money instead of going out to see movies for her family. They also bought a projector and screen, despite already having a huge TV, and a mini movie theatre style popcorn machine. All to "save money".

@MistressoftheDarkSide

No mine don't either as they see how hard it is for their grandchildren. My aunt and uncle with no kids on the otherhand have never researched outside of their little bubble.

Are you naive enough to think you can reason and prioritize your way out of poverty? You have NO idea what poverty actually is. The huge cost of living increases have made it so many families are worse off now than they would have been on lower wages 10 years ago. This is a pointless and very ignorant post. Only a privileged person with zero idea of actually prioritizing or having to scrimp would make such a ridiculous point. NO is the answer to your question.

Yes, I think what shows like this demonstrate is that many people struggle with managing money because they don't know how to do so effectively, and often they don't really know how much they are actually spending.

Bad and good money habits are learned, and like any habit it can be really hard to change what you learned when young.

Sure, being careful is probably not going to take you from being in abject poverty to buying a house. But it might take you from your wages running out before the month is over to stretching to the end and even saving a little for times when there are extra expenses, a drop in income, etc

Some people are spenders, some are savers. I’ve got three kids a year apart in age. One left school and went to work and spent every spare penny of his wages on clubbing and alcohol. Another one spent their money on the gym, coffee and designer clothes. The other was desperate to save, made lunches at home, took a water bottle everywhere and spent hardly anything to save for a house deposit. All brought up the same. All treated the same and all different views on spending.

That can change over time. I was the spending everything on clubbing and alcohol person when I was younger and my brother was the 'make his sandwiches' saver. Now I'm a saver too. I grew up.

Indeed.

The chimera of long term stability vs transient pleasures has been trotted out a few posts back. It's not realistic. Pounds do not take care of themselves when there are not enough of them coming in.

Yes and no.

There are some people who are doing the absolute best they can and they still can't get the ends to meet.

Others, like a friend of mine, will complain about other people being able to afford holidays while telling you they spent £200+ on one night out drinking.

My daughter's friend's mum used to spend money on clothes rather than food for the kids.

I find the posts simply dismissing the idea that people's choices are relevant so strange and I wonder what they are trying to accomplish? The OP hasn't said it is always the case, but it can be the case. I sometimes wonder if these people are actually so divorced from people who do that kind of thing that they have no experience seeing people make poor choices like that.

I wonder - do they just excuse people who don't support their kids because they go shopping instead, or buy gym memberships they can't afford? And do they think it's in any way helpful or empowering to say to people there is no use trying to learn better money management in order to better their situation?

Exactly this. My DM used to go on at me for having my nails done. At the time I spent about £40 a month. I worked p/t (only job I could get) and earned less than £7 an hour. MW at the time was just over £6 if memory serves, this was around 2010/11.

I would’ve saved less than £500 a year. Not even a months rent, not that I’d have been accepted for rentals on my income anyway. Having my nails done gave me a small element of pleasure in an otherwise crap time.

Well said!

In fact, let’s go right back to Victorian concepts of the ‘deserving poor’ versus the ‘feckless poor’.

I never said poverty isn’t complex or that external factors don’t play a role. But are you saying personal choices never have an impact? Because plenty of people make sacrifices to improve their situation, even in tough circumstances. Acknowledging systemic issues doesn’t mean completely dismissing personal responsibility either.

do you mean living on benefits means broke or ? I wonder what broke means. Living on a salary and having 0 to save at the end of the month? Having shelter, clothes and food but not much fun for which you pay?