To tell my friend (nicely and diplomatically) to get a grip re her divorce?

[JandamiHash]

My friend’s OH asked her for a divorce about 8 months ago. Reason being “I’m sorry but I’ve changed and just don’t love you anymore”. This had been said before and they agreed to try and make it work but after a year it just didnt. no kids (by choice) just dogs. I was obviously terribly sorry for her and it was a shock as i thought they'd worked things out. But her struggle to cope is absolutely off the scale.

She posts about 10 times a day on facebook about how heartbroken she is, or posts memories saying things like "To think we will never go here again". Her ex is still her facebook friend! She calls me a lot crying and or asking for help - she was by her own admission the damsel in distress type in their marriage and never learnt how to do things like get the car serviced or change a lightbulb because her ex always did those things. When she first moved out she called me constantly asking how to find the boiler, how to use a thermostat etc

I’ve helped her through it as best I can, but she resolutely doesn’t want to get over it (she’s said this). She will “never be over it” and “never be ready to move on”. Her ex initially said they could be friends and they have a custody arrangement with the dogs so see each other twice a week. She gets upset because ex won’t stay to watch films or have a glass of wine.

I strongly suspect the ex has a new woman (this all coincided with taking up a particular hobby that has lots of women involved) but my friend refuses to believe this is possible.

Met friend for lunch at the weekend, and she spent 3 hours talking about her ex, crying and saying how she will never ever be over their marriage.

I did try and update her about my life - she initially asked how my kids were and I started updating her about my DS who has a chronic condition that’s thankfully been getting a bit better (I hope!). But she so clearly was desperate to stop talking about it and start talking about her ex.

Her other friends and family have attempted to tell her to move on and she’s fallen out with them or put a status on Facebook saying how upset she is (annoyingly to scores of people telling her she has shit friends if they expect her to just move on and she should take as long as she needs).

Now I love her but I’m getting fed up at her lack of self awareness. I get she’s heartbroken but come on - to be so resolutely sure that you always want to be wallowing in misery, and consuming your friends with your grief, is not ok in my book.

WIBU to politely tell her to get a grip and that next time we meet we limit the conversation about her ex? I don’t want to upset her but equally it’s not fair on me for her to be this way

Or am I an insensitive cow who should be a better friend?

I doubt she realizes it but if he's seeing any of this on sm or being told by others he's probably even more glad he left. And using this to say "see what I put up with". The best revenge is moving on and being happy. But she won't get there like this.

Tell her not to discuss the huge painful thing she's going through?

What is the point of even having friends if they would say this?

8 months is nothing.

Because it's heartbreaking?

Emotions are complex.

I can't believe the lack of emotional intelligence some people have.

She sounds exhausting.

its a process of grieving, its not the same but it is comparable in the way a human deals with the loss of a relationship

Are they actually divorced or does she still have the technicalities of that to go through? (i.e. such as the financial settlement.)

How long were they married?

How old are they?

It's really tricky for me to form a view as to how patient I'd need to feel towards her without some more info. 10 SM posts a day - way too much in absolute terms. And I get that it's tiresome.

The other bits may or may not be, however 'annoying' she is coming across.

It took me 3 years to get over an ex. I refused to talk to anyone about it. My friends said I was like a wraith, physically there but quiet and so obviously not present. The pain was all consuming, I felt like I was in a swamp I couldn’t escape.

I cried every night but no one knew. Or at least I didn’t tell anyone.

So whilst I sympathise with your friend on the pain, I don’t agree with her monopolising all the conversation and making everything about her.

I think you should do as you suggested Op, tell her that after 8 months, you’ve run out of mileage on bottomless sympathy.

Say that she is allowed 10-15 minutes to wallow about ex and then the conversation must move to other things.

You must stick to this. If she refuses then I would limit how much you see her, e.g. once a month or once every 2 months.

If she runs out of friends to use as memory cards then she may start to dig herself out of the swamp.

Pfft death was MUCH better than divorce for me

At least there's closure with a death, when my ex fucked off with his colleague it was much worse

Yes she needs therapy

Divorce can be (and was for me utterly horrific)

Current dh and I have compromised as I said death was better than divorce. He's given me permission to kill him if he moots divorce

"She posts about 10 times a day on facebook about how heartbroken she is, or posts memories saying things like "To think we will never go here again". Her ex is still her facebook friend!"
Those posts aren't 'posts', those posts are direct messages to her ex hoping to guilt him into coming back.

"... she resolutely doesn’t want to get over it (she’s said this). She will “never be over it” and “never be ready to move on”. "
I'm inclined to think this is as performative as the Facebook posts. She thinks if she mopes around not getting over it, he'll come back and be the Knight in Shining Armour to her Damsel in Distress again.

"Her ex initially said they could be friends and they have a custody arrangement with the dogs so see each other twice a week. She gets upset because ex won’t stay to watch films or have a glass of wine."
If he wants to be free of her, he needs to knock that on the head, it's just keeping her wounds open.

What's his plan, wait until the dogs die (how old are the dogs anyway?), or continue opening the wounds twice a week? Does it flatter him that she's become a "professional wallower" (thanks for that term @HT2222)? In his shoes - I would cede ownership of the dogs to her (she definitely wouldn't cede her remaining link to him) knowing they'll be well cared for, and - walk away.

I don't think she'd listen to your advice to get a grip, @JandamiHash . I don't think she'd hear never mind listen! For your own sanity, you'd be best limiting your time in her company. @stardust777's suggestion is a good one - "I'd get in touch to let her know that you'll be quiet for the next few weeks as things are full on family-wise. To soften the blow, I'd signpost any resources or organisations that might be able to help ..." . After a break from the drama for a week or two, you may well feel refreshed enough to deal with her again, or you may decide you don't want to deal with her again.

Agreed, in some ways ex’s death would been
more bearable, although I would not have wished it on anyone. But grief is not logical and you can’t see past the fog sometimes.

OP’s friend does sound annoying in her helplessness though.

I think 8 months is nothing, particularly if her husband leaving has also triggered unresolved trauma.

If her behaviour is annoying for you, then you need to set some boundaries. This might sound like: you’re sorry to see her in so much pain. I’m finding it difficult to support you through this and don’t know what to say when you tell me about how evidently unhappy you are, that you would love to see her seek out someone more able to support her (i.e a thérapist).

This what happens when you have a parent child relationship with your partner.

The "child" in the relationship gets sacked off and tries to have the same relationship again and again, be it with another partner or their friends.

She's not a damsel in distress she just never grew into an independent adult clearly.

Well she’s not going to move on still sharing “custody” of dogs and seeing him twice a week. If I had any intention of getting over someone I wouldn’t be doing that. If he was so insistent on seeing the dogs then he can pick them up or drop them off from a joint friend or family member. If either of them think this arrangement with the dogs is in anyone’s interest (including the dogs) then they are deluding themselves. But she is by desperately holding on to the idea he might come in for a glass of wine and rekindle their dead relationship like some really bad romance movie.

I wouldn’t say anything to her, she doesn’t want to hear it, but I’d back off and leave her to it. Keep changing the subject every time she brings it up and she’ll either get the hint or not want to hang out with you anymore.

Unfortunately the only way she’ll snap out of this misplaced hope she has for them is through a lot of therapy. Or when he gets a serious girlfriend and she finally realises it’s over for good. He’s not helping either by keeping her on Facebook seeing how she’s imploding or trying to be friends. A new girlfriend wouldn’t stand for it I’m sure.
There are no children involved. No contact other than the practicalities of the divorce is absolutely achievable in these circumstances.

In some ways it is worse than a death as you are having to deal with the loss of them and the knowledge that it was their choice

I remember reading somewhere once - I think the Guardian CiF - from a man who had a lover walk out on him and a wife die of cancer and he said the first was more painful because of the rejection factor.

Cross posted.

8 months really isn’t long. She is grieving a future she thought she had. It’s really very sad and some people need professional help to get over something like this. Please don’t turn your back on her, but tell her nicely that she needs to get some help and this grief and lost love is consuming her and making her ill.

That's exactly it.

The thing is, there’s a bit of a social contract with friends - you should each get to talk for at least a third of the time. It doesn’t have to be enforced all the time, particularly if something dramatic has just happened - but it should fall that way most of the time. The way the OP writes (the friend talked about her ex for three hours, they touched on her son’s issues but the friend was dying to move onto her ex) makes me think the one-third rule hasn’t been observed for a while.

Unfollow the friend on FB. Don’t see her for a bit - say that you’ve got some things going on which make it difficult to focus elsewhere for the time being.

If her husband (or anyone close like dad etc...) got hit by a bus or had a heart attack 8 months ago and died would you be telling her to get over it?

Grief exists at the loss of something not just physical death of a person. She didn't stop loving him so she lost something against her will that she wasn't and isn't over... grief takes years for many and some do never move on.

You don't get to tell someone their 'acceptable grieving period' and how anyone else 'may' imagine they would react/feel in her shoes is redundant.

For this level of distress, she definitely needs therapy. And maybe antidepressants.

I think that divorce is like bereavement insofar as if you haven't experienced it, you can't imagine how bad it is. I had a long, bad marriage, and truthfully him leaving as he did was the biggest favour he could have done me. However, even with that, I was really really surprised how sad it made me. I would never, ever have thought it could make me that sad had I not been through it.

An unwanted divorce is an enormous adjustment, and it's only been 8 months. That's not long at all. The mental shift required is massive, when for a long time you thought you would grow old together. And you remember when he loved you enough to marry you, and back when you were in love. The loss is enormous.

I also think that you should bear in mind that if you haven't been divorced, you probably can't imagine the magnitude of sadness she's experiencing.

She sounds completely unhinged to me.. yes it can still feel raw after 8 months, but jesus there's no need to bang on about it constantly and post of Facebook constantly. She needs to get a grip.

Well she's either a drama queen, enjoying wallowing in it all or simply overwhelmed by it. Perhaos she has something in her past that has caused a real fear of, and inability to cope with, rejection. It sounds like she has become 'stuck' at a point in the process of coming to terms with it.

Can you kindly say that to her and suggest she has some counselling?

The way to deal with it us for her to make up her mind that she wants to be over it and move on- then to take some simple steps and stick to them:

1. Unfollow him in social media. Block him.
2. Delete his phone number. Block him.
3. Ask people not to discuss him with you (her).
4. Never ask anyone about him.
5. Every time he enters her head do something else- go fir a walk, make a cake, sing, go yo the gym, go shopping, watch a film.
6. Fill her diary with things to do so she is busy.
7. Find a hobby or an evening class.
8. Never look back at him - just keep focussed on herself and moving forward.
9. Go on holiday.
10. Always show real interest in friends/family.
11. Do something for other people every day- even something tiny.
12. Smile and be cheerful.

It works. I have been there- although not on social media posting stuff.

Oh the ex needs to do her a favour and tell her he has moved on. She will start to feel angry then empowered and will finally move on after a while.

I worked with someone who did this, she suddenly found people gave her attention when she made dramatic statements and proceeded to wring everylast drop out of it, loved every minute in her own way.

Like other posters I don't think she will listen to you or it will be another ... oh look at how everyone is abandoning me moment.

You can be there and supportive by helping her access help without you needing to be there fixing things for her. She needs to learn to stand on her own two feet and get help rather than rely on her friends heavily until they run out of time and emotional patience.