To tell my friend (nicely and diplomatically) to get a grip re her divorce?

[JandamiHash]

My friend’s OH asked her for a divorce about 8 months ago. Reason being “I’m sorry but I’ve changed and just don’t love you anymore”. This had been said before and they agreed to try and make it work but after a year it just didnt. no kids (by choice) just dogs. I was obviously terribly sorry for her and it was a shock as i thought they'd worked things out. But her struggle to cope is absolutely off the scale.

She posts about 10 times a day on facebook about how heartbroken she is, or posts memories saying things like "To think we will never go here again". Her ex is still her facebook friend! She calls me a lot crying and or asking for help - she was by her own admission the damsel in distress type in their marriage and never learnt how to do things like get the car serviced or change a lightbulb because her ex always did those things. When she first moved out she called me constantly asking how to find the boiler, how to use a thermostat etc

I’ve helped her through it as best I can, but she resolutely doesn’t want to get over it (she’s said this). She will “never be over it” and “never be ready to move on”. Her ex initially said they could be friends and they have a custody arrangement with the dogs so see each other twice a week. She gets upset because ex won’t stay to watch films or have a glass of wine.

I strongly suspect the ex has a new woman (this all coincided with taking up a particular hobby that has lots of women involved) but my friend refuses to believe this is possible.

Met friend for lunch at the weekend, and she spent 3 hours talking about her ex, crying and saying how she will never ever be over their marriage.

I did try and update her about my life - she initially asked how my kids were and I started updating her about my DS who has a chronic condition that’s thankfully been getting a bit better (I hope!). But she so clearly was desperate to stop talking about it and start talking about her ex.

Her other friends and family have attempted to tell her to move on and she’s fallen out with them or put a status on Facebook saying how upset she is (annoyingly to scores of people telling her she has shit friends if they expect her to just move on and she should take as long as she needs).

Now I love her but I’m getting fed up at her lack of self awareness. I get she’s heartbroken but come on - to be so resolutely sure that you always want to be wallowing in misery, and consuming your friends with your grief, is not ok in my book.

WIBU to politely tell her to get a grip and that next time we meet we limit the conversation about her ex? I don’t want to upset her but equally it’s not fair on me for her to be this way

Or am I an insensitive cow who should be a better friend?

Exactly I’m not some sentient being, I’m a person with my own life and problems and issues going on and it’s quite hard to have absolutely no space in a friendship for me. I don’t mind at all at first as everybody is allowed a little time to be selfish and consume the friendship with their problems. But not forever lest I’m an ‘arsehole’.

I did years ago have a chat with a friend who was having a hard time at work, all we ever talked about was her job and I couldn’t even keep track of what was going on because I didn’t work there so didn’t understand what she meant when she described very particular scenarios. I put my big girl pants on and told her we’d spent a year talking about her work and it’s exhausting. She took it well, apologised and I don’t think she realised the impact she was having on others.

What she needs is someone to say, “Listen, first hour, we’ll talk about you and the divorce and anything you like. But then we spend the rest of the evening talking about anything but. That’s the deal. You have to sign up to it, or we don’t go out. Okay?”

This works. I know because I have been there, a few times. The first time, I was not the OP, but the friend.

Like I say she’s on a waiting list, she can’t afford private therapy sadly as the split has had an impact on her finances.

So what IS the time span then? Forever? Am I an arsehole if I don’t want to spend forever having no space for me in the friendship?

As I say that’s absolutely not my expectations of a friendship, and I feel sad for anyone who has those expectations

Dying to know what all those post deletions were now!

This is so true Holly!! I remember when my dad died seeing a friend who had a really first world problem when it came to her SIL, it was a funny story over some sort of cake (a MN type story) and it definitely gave me light relief. I DID have a bit of a pity party “people need to get real problems” moment of about 2 weeks after he died (though I didn’t say it out loud only to DH!) when I saw other people’s trivial issues, but then eventually you calm down and realise problems are all relative.

What was the inappropriate emoji?? Damn my work I missed the deletions!

Hah, it was just laughter, I was more or less just yanking her chain as she was being very silly but calling me silly.

It was not me who reported her but I won't deny I was pleased when I saw her posts had vanished, she was not posting in good faith.

Yes she has been implying in a few places that I’m sockpupetting and thinks she’s being clever by using terms to refer to this but TBH she just comes across as obsessive and unhinged

Well, my big relationship trauma fucked me up for at least five years, and caused me to run roughshod over two or three lovely and unsuspecting people who got involved with me during that time. For the first two years, I was probably very boring to be around, as I was either monomaniacally morose or just manically aflame.

A lot of friends stuck with me through that, for which I am very grateful. I’ve been able to reciprocate in some cases. And I’ve tried to help some other people too.

Stick with her. If you’re really lucky, you’ll never need her to do the same for you.

Like I say I have had my own grief and never “needed” a friend for anything, it was nice that (some of them) were there and I could talk to them about it but I would never have needed to spend years talking about nothing else other than my grief.

This thread is interesting from a perspective of friendship standards. I think mine are different than other people’s because I don’t think a good friendship looks like only ever talking about your own problems for literal years and considering the other person lucky because they haven’t been through an identical experience

Aw it's normal to have those moments of self-pity. Something awful has happened, you're allowed to feel sorry for yourself. But, yeah, that is not supposed to last forever. You eventually regain perspective.
But there are people who just don't get that problems are relative and that theirs isn't worse or more important than anyone else's. I see it a lot on MN.

OP: "My husband beats me, starves our children, killed our dog..."

Poster: "At least you have a husband. Mine died 10 years ago. I would do anything to have him back. Count your blessings, OP."

😱

I think that our expectations of friendship are about the same - there should be an approximate equality of give and take.

We differ only over the timescale across which that should even out. For me, it could be years.

For you, it’s starter and entree, tops.

And I have some sympathy with that - hence my first post.

I assure you my grief is NOT an “starter and entree tops”. How fucking dare you be so rude. All Because I don’t agree with you so you resort to petty insults over my grief about my dad’s death? Pathetic.

I feel my grief very keenly actually even now - I just don't think I’ve got the god given right that just because I feel something I impose it indefinitely on my friends. You clearly do, and I feel rather sorry for your friends for having someone in their life who thinks they’re not human just a sounding board. I’d NEVER treat people I love that way.

I just don't think I’ve got the god given right that just because I feel something I impose it indefinitely on my friends

That's my perspective on it too. I know my friends would be there for me no matter what, but I have too much love and respect for them to inflict my misery on them until I'm over it. They have their own lives and their own problems. And "over it" isn't even a thing. It always stays with you. You just get to a place where it doesn't consume your every thought.

It is bizarre to imply that someone is a worse friend because they don't want to impose on others for years on end.

The thing is, your friends are meant to make you feel good. It’s important to support them through hard times (which the OP has done) but you should enjoy their company.

If a friend messages you to ask to meet up, you should feel glad they got in touch. If seeing their message makes your heart sink and think “Oh God, what is the matter now?” then it’s a sign that you need to speak up (or take some time away).

I’m wondering if some people have the same expectations of friends as they do of a life partner.

I do expect different from my OH, because he chose to spend his life with me through good and bad, but even he would tell me “enough is enough now” if I’m draining him. Do some people expect to drain their OHs AND their friends and if their OH/friends don’t put up with it they’re shit people.

Thankfully that’s not my experience at all of relationships

Obviously you should expect more from a life partner than a friend. However I think the problem here is that all of the time you are spending with this friend has centred around her for the last eight months. If that happened in your marriage, you would feel drained too.
I think the best you can do is suggest to your friend that she has counselling. If she refuses, I think you need to step away a bit.

Take no notice. You will many see people on other threads saying ‘I haven’t a friend in the world’ none whatsoever. What happened?

These could be the same people.

Just stay in your own lane. You are a good friend, I think you know that she probably needs professional help now and it’s getting more obvious now the more you to keep listening to her. Point her towards counselling. If she had an Employee Assistance Program at work, that’s free.
Her ex husband might pay for some counselling also.
You are not qualified past a certain point. She sounds a bit helpless.

I hope your son will be ok. Look after your own house and feel no guilt for stepping back. You are a good friend.

TBH I think that people need to be told to get a grip more often rather than this softly softly there-there approach that society has now. It’s little wonder that people have 0 resilience now and therapists are raking it in.

I’m not talking about the day/week/month the divorce happens, but 8 months in posting on facebook ten times a day it’s clear the woman is actually getting something from wallowing like this. Attention maybe? The knowledge that nobody dare say anything to her for fear of upsetting her? The only person she’s affecting by wallowing this way is herself, and not in a good way. Sometimes therapy can help, but more often than not it just prolongs the suffering, when actually what needs to happen is that people need to move on.

So she’s divorced. She’s not the first and she won’t be the last. And he’s not coming back, so she needs t move forward, otherwise she’s not only going to have lost her partner but any friends she ever had, because it wears a bit thin after a while. And nobody is going to want to make friends with a woman whose life consists of being miserable.

Fair point op but I still think that encouraging her to get professional help is a win win for both of you.

Telling people to get a grip when they are in this sort of state ie proper mental distress is counter-productive.

Supporting her to find and see a good therapist says two things; I support you but I am not going to be doing the supporting forever.

And therapy isn’t a softly softly solution. If carried out properly it should challenge how you perceive and approach life and how you handle distressing situations.

I’m not remotely qualified to do so, but I would guess that your friend either has some sort of dependent personality issue or is suffering from some form of traumatic grief.

That fact that posters on here say things like she'll never get over it and OP should continue letting friend grieve to this level saddens me as it means they too would let a break up "ruin their life" so to speak.

Find her a new man and set them up. You know what they say, best way to get over a man is to get under another one 😉